[NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
Peter Vogel
vogel.peter at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 09:45:28 AKDT 2015
I'll be at Stephen Sobolewski's contest in Chicago at the end of the month.
I'm open to traveling to 1-2 more contests this year after that. I do have
family commitments for the end of August/beginning of September (my 25th
anniversary). The closer you are to a vacation destination where my wife
could come and have fun when I'm at the contest the more likely I am to be
able to come at this point :-)
Peter+
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Jas <justanotherflyr at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm maybe for the contest at the end of the month :)
>
> Sent from my iP
>
> On Jun 8, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> https://www.patternscoring.com
>
> There's a brief intro and a video at the bottom showing how the system
> works.
>
> Peter+
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:40 AM, John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> Where can you find info on the system?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>> *On Behalf Of *Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2015 11:13 AM
>> *To:* Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System -
>> Thoughts
>>
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:36 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> See if this is any better…. Straight text.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) It works. Period. End of story. 25 guys who had never
>> touched it before not only learned it, but used it efficiently with a 5
>> minute intro and sitting down and scoring a demo flight. ZERO missed
>> maneuvers, no lost scores, no complaints. NADA.
>>
>> 2) The system actually uses downgrade scoring. I.e. you click
>> the 1/2pt (or full pt) down everytime you see a downgrade. It takes
>> practice flight before you realize that you need to click on everything you
>> see…rather than do mental math or create a perception of the maneuver, but
>> once you do, it’s enlightening.
>>
>> 3) The score range widens. This is a good thing. It wasn’t
>> drastic, but rather than a long diatribe of 7’s and 8’s, if you go look at
>> the score sheets (I highly suggest surfing through the
>> www.patternscoring.com site) you’ll see many score sheets that feature
>> both 5’s and 10’s on the same page.
>>
>> 4) More 10’s. If you don’t see a downgrade…that 10 is just
>> sitting there. There’s no longer the pressure to write down a 9 simply
>> because “no one actually flies a 10”.
>>
>> 5) Long complex maneuvers (hour glass for example) get the
>> pounding they deserve. The opportunity for downgrades in these maneuvers
>> is massive…and when the judge is just clicking away, well… we get
>> hammered. And we should. Every missed angle, every missed radius, the
>> over cooked snap, etc etc. Your 7 just became a 4.5
>>
>> 6) Surprisingly consistent judging between both judges on the
>> line. Shockingly consistent actually. I consider that another
>> endorsement for the system.
>>
>> 7) More engaged judging. This was big for me. I personally
>> feel like I start to glaze over after the 8th (or worse …18th) Masters
>> flight in a contest. It’s very hard to stay consistent and stay alert and
>> not revert to perception judging in the old paper and pencil format. This
>> eliminated that completely. You’re actively engaged throughout each
>> maneuver and each flight. Both physically recording downgrades and
>> watching intently for them. I felt it was MUCH easier to be a good judge
>> and an alert judge.
>>
>> 8) Every maneuver called out loud for the judge, for every
>> pilot, for every round. This made judging the new sequences, which I
>> hadn’t judged yet, simple.
>>
>> 9) You never need to look down from the plane. Really.
>> Never. What’s interesting here is that you begin to notice all the
>> downgrades that occur in the transition between manuevers. No more free
>> fixes!
>>
>> 10) It seems to greatly reduce or even eliminate the influence
>> that the prior maneuver has on the scores. I know this shouldn’t be the
>> case… but we all know it is. Someone that’s flown a train wreck of 6’s
>> suddenly flies a clean Split S turn and think “wow…that was pretty
>> good…8”. On this system you’re just clicking downgrades…that same Split S
>> just scored a 10. As it should have.
>>
>> 11) Your scores are up on the big screen, normalized to whom
>> ever has already flown that round, before your plane rolls to a stop.
>> Literally. And if you’re up first?? Well, take a picture because for the
>> moment… you’re winning!
>>
>> In summary, this will be the single biggest advancement in scoring for
>> pattern since the introduction of normalization. It’s going to take a
>> year or two to get everyone in the country familiar with the system (and
>> get systems purchased for use) before we can use it at a Nats, but we’ll
>> get there, and quickly. I was extremely skeptical, for about 5 minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>> You’ll fear it. You’ll use it. You’ll love it.
>>
>> ‘nuff said.
>>
>> Well done Peter. Very well done.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>> *MARK **ATWOOD*
>>
>> *President*
>>
>> o. (440) 229-2502
>>
>> c. (216) 316-2489
>>
>> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
>>
>> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>
>> www.paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What the Heck???
>>
>>
>>
>> Mine didn’t come through that way at all!! Sorry guys… I’ll see if I
>> can repost it cleaner.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *MARK **ATWOOD*
>>
>> *President*
>>
>> o. (440) 229-2502
>>
>> c. (216) 316-2489
>>
>> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
>>
>> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>
>> www.paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>> If you fumble through all of the weird format issues with Mark's email
>> there is a lot of great comments there and just about everyone will agree
>> with every one. I was asked many time when is our district going to buy one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anthony
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) It works. Period. End of story. 25 guys who had never
>> touched it before not only learned it, but used it efficiently with a 5
>> minute intro and sitting down and scoring a demo flight. ZERO missed
>> maneuvers, no lost scores, no complaints. NADA.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) The system actually uses downgrade scoring. I.e. you
>> click the 1/2pt (or full pt) down everytime you see a downgrade. It takes
>> practice flight before you realize that you need to click on everything you
>> see…rather than do mental math or create a perception of the maneuver, but
>> once you do, it’s enlightening.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) The score range widens. This is a good thing. It wasn’t
>> drastic, but rather than a long diatribe of 7’s and 8’s, if you go look at
>> the score sheets (I highly suggest surfing through the
>> www.patternscoring.com site) you’ll see many score sheets that feature
>> both 5’s and 10’s on the same page.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) More 10’s. If you don’t see a downgrade…that 10 is just
>> sitting there. There’s no longer the pressure to write down a 9 simply
>> because “no one actually flies a 10”.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Long complex maneuvers (hour glass for example) get the
>> pounding they deserve. The opportunity for downgrades in these maneuvers
>> is massive…and when the judge is just clicking away, well… we get
>> hammered. And we should. Every missed angle, every missed radius, the
>> over cooked snap, etc etc. Your 7 just became a 4.5
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Surprisingly consistent judging between both judges on the
>> line. Shockingly consistent actually. I consider that another
>> endorsement for the system.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) More engaged judging. This was big for me. I personally
>> feel like I start to glaze over after the 8th (or worse …18th) Masters
>> flight in a contest. It’s very hard to stay consistent and stay alert and
>> not revert to perception judging in the old paper and pencil format. This
>> eliminated that completely. You’re actively engaged throughout each
>> maneuver and each flight. Both physically recording downgrades and
>> watching intently for them. I felt it was MUCH easier to be a good judge
>> and an alert judge.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Every maneuver called out loud for the judge, for every
>> pilot, for every round. This made judging the new sequences, which I
>> hadn’t judged yet, simple.
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) You never need to look down from the plane. Really.
>> Never. What’s interesting here is that you begin to notice all the
>> downgrades that occur in the transition between manuevers. No more free
>> fixes!
>>
>> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
>> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
>> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
>> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
>> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> *And it’s fantastic.*
>>
>>
>>
>> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) It seems to greatly reduce or even eliminate the
>> influence that the prior maneuver has on the scores. I know this shouldn’t
>> be the case… but we all know it is. Someone that’s flown a train wreck of
>> 6’s suddenly flies a clean Split S turn and think “wow…that was pretty
>> good…8”. On this system you’re just clicking downgrades…that same Split S
>> just scored a 10. As it should have.
>>
>> 11) Your scores are up on the big screen, normalized to whom
>> ever has already flown that round, before your plane rolls to a stop.
>> Literally. And if you’re up first?? Well, take a picture because for the
>> moment… you’re winning!
>>
>> In summary, this will be the single biggest advancement in scoring for
>> pattern since the introduction of normalization. It’s going to take a
>> year or two to get everyone in the country familiar with the system (and
>> get systems purchased for use) before we can use it at a Nats, but we’ll
>> get there, and quickly. I was extremely skeptical, for about 5 minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>> You’ll fear it. You’ll use it. You’ll love it.
>>
>> ‘nuff said.
>>
>> Well done Peter. Very well done.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>> *MARK **ATWOOD*
>>
>> *President*
>>
>> o. (440) 229-2502
>>
>> c. (216) 316-2489
>>
>> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
>>
>> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>
>> www.paragon-inc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing
>> list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
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