[NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
Peter Vogel
vogel.peter at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 08:43:43 AKDT 2015
Thanks Mark! It's been a lot of work, but notes like yours make it all
worthwhile!
Thrilled to be able to contribute back to the sport I love!
Peter+
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> See if this is any better…. Straight text.
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
>
> 1) It works. Period. End of story. 25 guys who had never
> touched it before not only learned it, but used it efficiently with a 5
> minute intro and sitting down and scoring a demo flight. ZERO missed
> maneuvers, no lost scores, no complaints. NADA.
>
> 2) The system actually uses downgrade scoring. I.e. you click
> the 1/2pt (or full pt) down everytime you see a downgrade. It takes
> practice flight before you realize that you need to click on everything you
> see…rather than do mental math or create a perception of the maneuver, but
> once you do, it’s enlightening.
>
> 3) The score range widens. This is a good thing. It wasn’t
> drastic, but rather than a long diatribe of 7’s and 8’s, if you go look at
> the score sheets (I highly suggest surfing through the
> www.patternscoring.com site) you’ll see many score sheets that feature
> both 5’s and 10’s on the same page.
>
> 4) More 10’s. If you don’t see a downgrade…that 10 is just
> sitting there. There’s no longer the pressure to write down a 9 simply
> because “no one actually flies a 10”.
>
> 5) Long complex maneuvers (hour glass for example) get the
> pounding they deserve. The opportunity for downgrades in these maneuvers
> is massive…and when the judge is just clicking away, well… we get
> hammered. And we should. Every missed angle, every missed radius, the
> over cooked snap, etc etc. Your 7 just became a 4.5
>
> 6) Surprisingly consistent judging between both judges on the
> line. Shockingly consistent actually. I consider that another
> endorsement for the system.
>
> 7) More engaged judging. This was big for me. I personally
> feel like I start to glaze over after the 8th (or worse …18th) Masters
> flight in a contest. It’s very hard to stay consistent and stay alert and
> not revert to perception judging in the old paper and pencil format. This
> eliminated that completely. You’re actively engaged throughout each
> maneuver and each flight. Both physically recording downgrades and
> watching intently for them. I felt it was MUCH easier to be a good judge
> and an alert judge.
>
> 8) Every maneuver called out loud for the judge, for every
> pilot, for every round. This made judging the new sequences, which I
> hadn’t judged yet, simple.
>
> 9) You never need to look down from the plane. Really.
> Never. What’s interesting here is that you begin to notice all the
> downgrades that occur in the transition between manuevers. No more free
> fixes!
>
> 10) It seems to greatly reduce or even eliminate the influence
> that the prior maneuver has on the scores. I know this shouldn’t be the
> case… but we all know it is. Someone that’s flown a train wreck of 6’s
> suddenly flies a clean Split S turn and think “wow…that was pretty
> good…8”. On this system you’re just clicking downgrades…that same Split S
> just scored a 10. As it should have.
>
> 11) Your scores are up on the big screen, normalized to whom ever
> has already flown that round, before your plane rolls to a stop.
> Literally. And if you’re up first?? Well, take a picture because for the
> moment… you’re winning!
>
> In summary, this will be the single biggest advancement in scoring for
> pattern since the introduction of normalization. It’s going to take a
> year or two to get everyone in the country familiar with the system (and
> get systems purchased for use) before we can use it at a Nats, but we’ll
> get there, and quickly. I was extremely skeptical, for about 5 minutes.
>
>
>
> You’ll fear it. You’ll use it. You’ll love it.
>
> ‘nuff said.
>
> Well done Peter. Very well done.
>
>
>
> -Mark
> *MARK **ATWOOD*
> *President*
> o. (440) 229-2502
> c. (216) 316-2489
> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>
> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> www.paragon-inc.com
>
> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>
> On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> What the Heck???
>
> Mine didn’t come through that way at all!! Sorry guys… I’ll see if I
> can repost it cleaner.
>
>
> *MARK **ATWOOD*
> *President*
> o. (440) 229-2502
> c. (216) 316-2489
> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>
> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> www.paragon-inc.com
>
> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>
> On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> If you fumble through all of the weird format issues with Mark's email
> there is a lot of great comments there and just about everyone will agree
> with every one. I was asked many time when is our district going to buy one.
>
> Anthony
>
> ------------------------------
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) It works. Period. End of story. 25 guys who had never
> touched it before not only learned it, but used it efficiently with a 5
> minute intro and sitting down and scoring a demo flight. ZERO missed
> maneuvers, no lost scores, no complaints. NADA.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) The system actually uses downgrade scoring. I.e. you click
> the 1/2pt (or full pt) down everytime you see a downgrade. It takes
> practice flight before you realize that you need to click on everything you
> see…rather than do mental math or create a perception of the maneuver, but
> once you do, it’s enlightening.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) The score range widens. This is a good thing. It wasn’t
> drastic, but rather than a long diatribe of 7’s and 8’s, if you go look at
> the score sheets (I highly suggest surfing through the
> www.patternscoring.com site) you’ll see many score sheets that feature
> both 5’s and 10’s on the same page.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) More 10’s. If you don’t see a downgrade…that 10 is just
> sitting there. There’s no longer the pressure to write down a 9 simply
> because “no one actually flies a 10”.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) Long complex maneuvers (hour glass for example) get the
> pounding they deserve. The opportunity for downgrades in these maneuvers
> is massive…and when the judge is just clicking away, well… we get
> hammered. And we should. Every missed angle, every missed radius, the
> over cooked snap, etc etc. Your 7 just became a 4.5
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) Surprisingly consistent judging between both judges on the
> line. Shockingly consistent actually. I consider that another
> endorsement for the system.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) More engaged judging. This was big for me. I personally
> feel like I start to glaze over after the 8th (or worse …18th) Masters
> flight in a contest. It’s very hard to stay consistent and stay alert and
> not revert to perception judging in the old paper and pencil format. This
> eliminated that completely. You’re actively engaged throughout each
> maneuver and each flight. Both physically recording downgrades and
> watching intently for them. I felt it was MUCH easier to be a good judge
> and an alert judge.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) Every maneuver called out loud for the judge, for every
> pilot, for every round. This made judging the new sequences, which I
> hadn’t judged yet, simple.
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) You never need to look down from the plane. Really.
> Never. What’s interesting here is that you begin to notice all the
> downgrades that occur in the transition between manuevers. No more free
> fixes!
>
> cussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s new electronic
> score entry system this weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
> because that credit should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
> what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put
> in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this effort.
>
> *And it’s fantastic.*
>
> So some thoughts about new score entry system in no particular order.
>
>
> 1) It seems to greatly reduce or even eliminate the influence
> that the prior maneuver has on the scores. I know this shouldn’t be the
> case… but we all know it is. Someone that’s flown a train wreck of 6’s
> suddenly flies a clean Split S turn and think “wow…that was pretty
> good…8”. On this system you’re just clicking downgrades…that same Split S
> just scored a 10. As it should have.
>
> 11) Your scores are up on the big screen, normalized to whom
> ever has already flown that round, before your plane rolls to a stop.
> Literally. And if you’re up first?? Well, take a picture because for the
> moment… you’re winning!
>
> In summary, this will be the single biggest advancement in scoring for
> pattern since the introduction of normalization. It’s going to take a
> year or two to get everyone in the country familiar with the system (and
> get systems purchased for use) before we can use it at a Nats, but we’ll
> get there, and quickly. I was extremely skeptical, for about 5 minutes.
>
>
> You’ll fear it. You’ll use it. You’ll love it.
>
> ‘nuff said.
>
> Well done Peter. Very well done.
>
>
> -Mark
> *MARK **ATWOOD*
> *President*
> o. (440) 229-2502
> c. (216) 316-2489
> e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>
> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> www.paragon-inc.com
>
> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>
>
>
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--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
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