[NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21

Tue Dec 15 10:09:48 AKST 2015

So, you think the FAA is going to "make" all of the factories in China,
Thailand, and Singapore comply with their rule?  Me thinks not.

*Scott A. McHarg*
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:

> The FAA also mentions "pre-registered" aircraft.  I believe that the
> manufacturers will be pre-registering aircraft to their customers, but I
> could be wrong.
>
> Peter+
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:33 AM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> To limit liability, all manufacturers, retailers, and clubs will have to
>> include the new regs with every vehicle and every membership sold/offered.
>> And of course the rogues that have caused the problems and will continue to
>> cause the problems will not register.
>>
>> It is the camels nose in the tent, it is the slippery slope, it is yet
>> again another unelected bureaucratic over reach that will accomplish little
>> or nothing other than grow wasteful government and degrade personal
>> liberty.  It will be a tool used by the FAA to characterize all modelers as
>> irresponsible operators causing the problems, and we (the vast majority)
>> will be subject to ever increasingly restrictive (and uneffective)
>> egulations targeted to control the tiny minority.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Please pardon any spelling errors or brevity.....Sent on a Sprint Samsung
>> Galaxy Note® 3
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Date: 12/15/2015 13:05 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: James Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net>, General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>
>> My question is.....
>>
>> Since the FAA has no ability to put something in place at the point of
>> sale and since the FAA cannot make a law and only a rule, how are they
>> going to let all the Best Buy / Radio Shack / Walmart / online store buyers
>> know that they must register?  There are going to be so many new operators
>> out there that have no idea this is happening.  I heard a ridiculous number
>> of the amount of these toys being sold just this Christmas season.  They
>> obviously did not think this through.  Announcement and implementation all
>> in one week.  That's the fastest I've ever seen a bureaucracy work even if
>> it did benefit them.
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>> Texas A&M University
>> PPL - ASEL
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:56 AM, James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone really believe an outlaw operator is going to put a number
>>> on their toy of choice?
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:
>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Ed Alt via
>>> NSRCA-discussion
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:15 AM
>>> *To:* Dana Beaton
>>> *Cc:* John Ford; General pattern discussion
>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The identity theft risk with the FAA number is that if someone places
>>> your number on their model and causes property damage or injuries or worse,
>>> then the FAA and law enforcement are coming down on your head.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Dana Beaton <danamaenia at me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ed, Andy and I joined Buc-Le in Quakertown this week since Farview
>>> closed (due to excess turbine traffic outraging the neighbors, having
>>> nothing to do with drones or nefarious non-members).  Buc-Le requires that
>>> club membership cards, or AMA cards for guests, be placed on the board
>>> while we fly.  Many clubs have a system like this.  The LVRCS still does,
>>> but we now permit members to wear their membership cards if they don’t want
>>> to use the board.  Someone who wants to borrow an identity, copy or steal
>>> an AMA card, can just stroll up to the box: No need for someone to help one
>>> of us find parts to a downed model, it’s that simple today to grab a name
>>> and number of someone who is reputable in the hobby to hide behind.  I have
>>> not heard of this happeningso it seems so unlikely, even now with
>>> registration coming down the pike.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the coming compliance environment, the new normal for AMA members,
>>> what may mar our hobby is reputable hobbyist pilots NOT registering?  I get
>>> that a lot of us are angry at what has transpired, but let’s think through
>>> the more probable scenarios and avoid needless troubles for ourselves and
>>> clubs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Decades ago when I was training for my Private Pilot ticket we still had
>>> the large registration numbers, N numbers, on general aviation planes.
>>> Every instructor had stories about the one little old lady who called the
>>> police every time she saw a low flying aircraft overhead.  While the pilot
>>> in question may have been in fact at a legal altitude/separation per the
>>> FARs, that did not stop those nuisance calls.  When the police came to ask
>>> around in these stories, nothing ever came of the complaints as the pilots,
>>> operators, etc. all had their documents in order and were flying
>>> responsibly.  Just crank calls that burdened the cops, resulting no
>>> problems for the flight school.  What I am getting at is if and when our
>>> neighbor calls around about activity at our clubs, should the locals come
>>> around asking, we will have all our documents in order.  If asked, like
>>> John suggests, we can produce registration.  End of story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OTOH, if neighbors complain and local authorities cannot establish that
>>> club members are operating within guidelines, there could be more questions
>>> than the situation would otherwise merit.  That is the more likely scenario
>>> in my mind than bad actors stealing my identity to fly drones badly.  We
>>> might want to worry more about the mundane stuff like that than the more
>>> elaborate scenarios?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Respectfully/anonymously (LOL),
>>>
>>> Dana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That should work for the most part.  Don't ever let anyone help you look
>>> for a lost/crashed model I guess.  There are still complications for
>>> various scenarios, such as for anyone who wants to teach a student to fly
>>> etc.
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> From: jsf106 at gmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:37:04 -0500
>>> CC: ed_alt at hotmail.com
>>> To: mark.grabowski at comcast.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>
>>> On my plane, the number will be accessible without tools, per the rule,
>>> but unless asked by an FAA official, I'm not offering to show where it is
>>> to anyone.
>>>
>>> I need to have my registration with me, and I will, but no one gets to
>>> see it. As the rule says, this is between me and the FAA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not up to the clubs or the AMA to police individuals on behalf of the
>>> FAA, so identity theft should not be a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Comcast via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Been thinking the very same thing. Someone steals a user number, does
>>> something stupid and then there's a knock at my door. Without a great alibi
>>> what are you gonna do???
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking of use cases, perhaps I missed it in the flurry of emails
>>> yesterday, but has anyone thought about the identity theft risk that the
>>> FAA is creating?  By registering the pilot and not having unique
>>> identification numbers for each model that are assigned to an owner, it
>>> sets up the scenario for anyone else to use your number on their model and
>>> cause virtually unlimited problems for you, anywhere, anytime.  To help
>>> reduce this risk, at the very least, the numbers would have to be provided
>>> by the FAA with some sort of marking, holography, whatever to at least
>>> raise the difficulty of identity theft from zero to something above zero.
>>> You can apparently use a felt marker to scribble your own numbers as it
>>> stands now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Better yet, from an identity theft perspective at least, there should be
>>> unique numbers for each model provided to the owner.  This, of course would
>>> drive costs way up and incur delays.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We should put the central planners in charge of every aspect of our
>>> lives now, should we not?  They've really shown their true colors on this
>>> one.  Incompetent boobs, every last one of them.
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:53:22 -0800
>>> To: acornacchione at hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>
>>> Honestly, I think thats one of the use-cases the FAA didn't think
>>> through real well...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My belief is that this whole thing is about creating a sense of
>>> accountability for the "rogue" users (I'm not willing to give them the term
>>> pilot because they don't deserve it) who do stupid shit like flying around
>>> a wildfire and preventing Calfire airborne response for 20+ minutes, etc.
>>> It's about dealing with the anti-AMA guys who fly 120+mph EDFs weighing 6+
>>> lbs over an active soccer game at a local park, it's about dealing with the
>>> dipshits who fly their drone on the takeoff/approach path of an active full
>>> scale airport in hopes of "cool footage".  The AMA field flyers are the
>>> least of the FAA's worries and we're blowing it out of proportion.  Yes,
>>> it's a stupid regulation, but let's comply where we can and show ourselves
>>> to be the responsible modelers the AMA says we are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For the foreign guys, first of all, sorry for the needless red tape
>>> (though I think a similar thing is coming for the BMFA guys in the UK and
>>> it would not surprise me to see a more sensible version of this from the
>>> Canadian guys).  But if I were CD'ing a contest and some guys came down
>>> from the Great White North, I'd happily hook them up with some temporary
>>> form of my own registration # to put in their planes for the purposes of
>>> flying at the contest because I know them to be responsible pilots.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Anthony Cornacchione via
>>> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Legit question with an unknown answer:  how will this impact
>>> international (IMAC Worlds in Muncie 2018) NATS with international
>>> competitors (NATS News this year had a nice write up) and our local
>>> contests which have had the occasional Canadian wander south?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Boaters register their pleasure craft, fishermen & hunters buy licenses,
>>> some folks even register their firearms! So what? Are we going to give up
>>> our hobby just because of a tiny pice of red tape? Nope! Just keep flying.
>>> The bad actors who misuse their aircraft will run afoul local authorities
>>> sure enough, that's their problem, not ours.  We need to continue to set
>>> the good example though our good flying.  Good flying will carry the day.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> So, just shut up and drink the Kool-Aid?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Derek
>>> Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 6:15 PM
>>> *To:* Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep.... yep... yep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hasn’t that private information ship already sailed?  We all register
>>> cars and think nothing of it.  Heck, we even took classes, got educated,
>>> and were tested for a license before we could own or operate a car and we
>>> have to renew that every four years and prove we’re still physically
>>> capable (minimal proof admittedly).  Personally not sure a gun should be
>>> much different but don’t want to start that discussion (especially since
>>> I’m generally pro gun…just not pro redneck hill jack survivalist conspiracy
>>> theorist) but not registering to fly airplanes?  Really?    We trade more
>>> info internationally downloading a Facebook app.    Also, we’re already
>>> registered… just with the AMA, not the USA.  And yes, the AMA is trying to
>>> make that our ONLY registration, but that’s just a proposal at this point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys… we already do ALL of this.  Our AMA # is on the plane, we follow
>>> safety rules, blah blah blah.  This is a very minor inconvenience and if
>>> the AMA proposal to use our AMA# for our registration number it won’t even
>>> be that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now is the time for massive civil disobedience!
>>>
>>> I don't think I'd register my planes any more than I'd register my guns.
>>>
>>> Too bad AMA has no clout like the NRA.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
>>> Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 1:23 PM
>>> *To:* Scott McHarg; General pattern discussion
>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Morons at work….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -           Robert Beaubien
>>>
>>> -           DronePlastics.com <http://droneplastics.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Dear Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X.  She's never coming
>>> back and don't ask Y.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
>>> via NSRCA-discussion
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:05 AM
>>> *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, here it is boys and girls.  It's official and starts next Monday.
>>> The link is for the FAQ's of what's happening.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to register once and you don't have to individually
>>> register all of your models.
>>>
>>> You must be able to provide proof of registration and have it on you
>>> when flying.
>>>
>>> You must have your Registration # (not going to be a N number) in your
>>> airplane where it is legible and accessible without the use of tools (aka
>>> under your canopy).
>>>
>>> If you sell a model, you should update your records. (I don't completely
>>> understand this if we aren't registering all of our models individually
>>> but, OK)
>>>
>>> Registration is $5 but you'll get that back if you register in the first
>>> 30 days, I believe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a look at the link and prepare to be upset.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>>
>>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>>
>>> Texas A&M University
>>>
>>> PPL - ASEL
>>> ------------------------------
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>
>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>
>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>>
>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
>
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