[NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21

Tue Dec 15 10:01:05 AKST 2015

The FAA also mentions "pre-registered" aircraft.  I believe that the
manufacturers will be pre-registering aircraft to their customers, but I
could be wrong.

Peter+

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:33 AM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> To limit liability, all manufacturers, retailers, and clubs will have to
> include the new regs with every vehicle and every membership sold/offered.
> And of course the rogues that have caused the problems and will continue to
> cause the problems will not register.
>
> It is the camels nose in the tent, it is the slippery slope, it is yet
> again another unelected bureaucratic over reach that will accomplish little
> or nothing other than grow wasteful government and degrade personal
> liberty.  It will be a tool used by the FAA to characterize all modelers as
> irresponsible operators causing the problems, and we (the vast majority)
> will be subject to ever increasingly restrictive (and uneffective)
> egulations targeted to control the tiny minority.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> Please pardon any spelling errors or brevity.....Sent on a Sprint Samsung
> Galaxy Note® 3
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> Date: 12/15/2015 13:05 (GMT-05:00)
> To: James Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>
> My question is.....
>
> Since the FAA has no ability to put something in place at the point of
> sale and since the FAA cannot make a law and only a rule, how are they
> going to let all the Best Buy / Radio Shack / Walmart / online store buyers
> know that they must register?  There are going to be so many new operators
> out there that have no idea this is happening.  I heard a ridiculous number
> of the amount of these toys being sold just this Christmas season.  They
> obviously did not think this through.  Announcement and implementation all
> in one week.  That's the fastest I've ever seen a bureaucracy work even if
> it did benefit them.
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:56 AM, James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone really believe an outlaw operator is going to put a number on
>> their toy of choice?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>> *On Behalf Of *Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:15 AM
>> *To:* Dana Beaton
>> *Cc:* John Ford; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>
>>
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>>
>> The identity theft risk with the FAA number is that if someone places
>> your number on their model and causes property damage or injuries or worse,
>> then the FAA and law enforcement are coming down on your head.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Dana Beaton <danamaenia at me.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ed, Andy and I joined Buc-Le in Quakertown this week since Farview
>> closed (due to excess turbine traffic outraging the neighbors, having
>> nothing to do with drones or nefarious non-members).  Buc-Le requires that
>> club membership cards, or AMA cards for guests, be placed on the board
>> while we fly.  Many clubs have a system like this.  The LVRCS still does,
>> but we now permit members to wear their membership cards if they don’t want
>> to use the board.  Someone who wants to borrow an identity, copy or steal
>> an AMA card, can just stroll up to the box: No need for someone to help one
>> of us find parts to a downed model, it’s that simple today to grab a name
>> and number of someone who is reputable in the hobby to hide behind.  I have
>> not heard of this happeningso it seems so unlikely, even now with
>> registration coming down the pike.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the coming compliance environment, the new normal for AMA members,
>> what may mar our hobby is reputable hobbyist pilots NOT registering?  I get
>> that a lot of us are angry at what has transpired, but let’s think through
>> the more probable scenarios and avoid needless troubles for ourselves and
>> clubs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Decades ago when I was training for my Private Pilot ticket we still had
>> the large registration numbers, N numbers, on general aviation planes.
>> Every instructor had stories about the one little old lady who called the
>> police every time she saw a low flying aircraft overhead.  While the pilot
>> in question may have been in fact at a legal altitude/separation per the
>> FARs, that did not stop those nuisance calls.  When the police came to ask
>> around in these stories, nothing ever came of the complaints as the pilots,
>> operators, etc. all had their documents in order and were flying
>> responsibly.  Just crank calls that burdened the cops, resulting no
>> problems for the flight school.  What I am getting at is if and when our
>> neighbor calls around about activity at our clubs, should the locals come
>> around asking, we will have all our documents in order.  If asked, like
>> John suggests, we can produce registration.  End of story.
>>
>>
>>
>> OTOH, if neighbors complain and local authorities cannot establish that
>> club members are operating within guidelines, there could be more questions
>> than the situation would otherwise merit.  That is the more likely scenario
>> in my mind than bad actors stealing my identity to fly drones badly.  We
>> might want to worry more about the mundane stuff like that than the more
>> elaborate scenarios?
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully/anonymously (LOL),
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> That should work for the most part.  Don't ever let anyone help you look
>> for a lost/crashed model I guess.  There are still complications for
>> various scenarios, such as for anyone who wants to teach a student to fly
>> etc.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> From: jsf106 at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:37:04 -0500
>> CC: ed_alt at hotmail.com
>> To: mark.grabowski at comcast.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> On my plane, the number will be accessible without tools, per the rule,
>> but unless asked by an FAA official, I'm not offering to show where it is
>> to anyone.
>>
>> I need to have my registration with me, and I will, but no one gets to
>> see it. As the rule says, this is between me and the FAA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not up to the clubs or the AMA to police individuals on behalf of the
>> FAA, so identity theft should not be a problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Comcast via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Been thinking the very same thing. Someone steals a user number, does
>> something stupid and then there's a knock at my door. Without a great alibi
>> what are you gonna do???
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of use cases, perhaps I missed it in the flurry of emails
>> yesterday, but has anyone thought about the identity theft risk that the
>> FAA is creating?  By registering the pilot and not having unique
>> identification numbers for each model that are assigned to an owner, it
>> sets up the scenario for anyone else to use your number on their model and
>> cause virtually unlimited problems for you, anywhere, anytime.  To help
>> reduce this risk, at the very least, the numbers would have to be provided
>> by the FAA with some sort of marking, holography, whatever to at least
>> raise the difficulty of identity theft from zero to something above zero.
>> You can apparently use a felt marker to scribble your own numbers as it
>> stands now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Better yet, from an identity theft perspective at least, there should be
>> unique numbers for each model provided to the owner.  This, of course would
>> drive costs way up and incur delays.
>>
>>
>>
>> We should put the central planners in charge of every aspect of our lives
>> now, should we not?  They've really shown their true colors on this one.
>> Incompetent boobs, every last one of them.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:53:22 -0800
>> To: acornacchione at hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>
>> Honestly, I think thats one of the use-cases the FAA didn't think through
>> real well...
>>
>>
>>
>> My belief is that this whole thing is about creating a sense of
>> accountability for the "rogue" users (I'm not willing to give them the term
>> pilot because they don't deserve it) who do stupid shit like flying around
>> a wildfire and preventing Calfire airborne response for 20+ minutes, etc.
>> It's about dealing with the anti-AMA guys who fly 120+mph EDFs weighing 6+
>> lbs over an active soccer game at a local park, it's about dealing with the
>> dipshits who fly their drone on the takeoff/approach path of an active full
>> scale airport in hopes of "cool footage".  The AMA field flyers are the
>> least of the FAA's worries and we're blowing it out of proportion.  Yes,
>> it's a stupid regulation, but let's comply where we can and show ourselves
>> to be the responsible modelers the AMA says we are.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the foreign guys, first of all, sorry for the needless red tape
>> (though I think a similar thing is coming for the BMFA guys in the UK and
>> it would not surprise me to see a more sensible version of this from the
>> Canadian guys).  But if I were CD'ing a contest and some guys came down
>> from the Great White North, I'd happily hook them up with some temporary
>> form of my own registration # to put in their planes for the purposes of
>> flying at the contest because I know them to be responsible pilots.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter+
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Anthony Cornacchione via NSRCA-discussion
>>  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Legit question with an unknown answer:  how will this impact
>> international (IMAC Worlds in Muncie 2018) NATS with international
>> competitors (NATS News this year had a nice write up) and our local
>> contests which have had the occasional Canadian wander south?
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Boaters register their pleasure craft, fishermen & hunters buy licenses,
>> some folks even register their firearms! So what? Are we going to give up
>> our hobby just because of a tiny pice of red tape? Nope! Just keep flying.
>> The bad actors who misuse their aircraft will run afoul local authorities
>> sure enough, that's their problem, not ours.  We need to continue to set
>> the good example though our good flying.  Good flying will carry the day.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> So, just shut up and drink the Kool-Aid?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Derek
>> Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 6:15 PM
>> *To:* Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep.... yep... yep.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hasn’t that private information ship already sailed?  We all register
>> cars and think nothing of it.  Heck, we even took classes, got educated,
>> and were tested for a license before we could own or operate a car and we
>> have to renew that every four years and prove we’re still physically
>> capable (minimal proof admittedly).  Personally not sure a gun should be
>> much different but don’t want to start that discussion (especially since
>> I’m generally pro gun…just not pro redneck hill jack survivalist conspiracy
>> theorist) but not registering to fly airplanes?  Really?    We trade more
>> info internationally downloading a Facebook app.    Also, we’re already
>> registered… just with the AMA, not the USA.  And yes, the AMA is trying to
>> make that our ONLY registration, but that’s just a proposal at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys… we already do ALL of this.  Our AMA # is on the plane, we follow
>> safety rules, blah blah blah.  This is a very minor inconvenience and if
>> the AMA proposal to use our AMA# for our registration number it won’t even
>> be that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Now is the time for massive civil disobedience!
>>
>> I don't think I'd register my planes any more than I'd register my guns.
>>
>> Too bad AMA has no clout like the NRA.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
>> Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 1:23 PM
>> *To:* Scott McHarg; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>
>>
>>
>> Morons at work….
>>
>>
>>
>> -           Robert Beaubien
>>
>> -           DronePlastics.com <http://droneplastics.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> “Dear Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X.  She's never coming
>> back and don't ask Y.”
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
>> via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:05 AM
>> *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, here it is boys and girls.  It's official and starts next Monday.
>> The link is for the FAQ's of what's happening.
>>
>>
>>
>>  You only have to register once and you don't have to individually
>> register all of your models.
>>
>> You must be able to provide proof of registration and have it on you when
>> flying.
>>
>> You must have your Registration # (not going to be a N number) in your
>> airplane where it is legible and accessible without the use of tools (aka
>> under your canopy).
>>
>> If you sell a model, you should update your records. (I don't completely
>> understand this if we aren't registering all of our models individually
>> but, OK)
>>
>> Registration is $5 but you'll get that back if you register in the first
>> 30 days, I believe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have a look at the link and prepare to be upset.....
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
>>
>>
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>
>> Texas A&M University
>>
>> PPL - ASEL
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>
>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>
>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>
>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>
>>
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-- 
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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