[NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21

Tue Dec 15 08:59:33 AKST 2015

Can't I just tattoo this number on the inside of my forearm and be done
with it?
DC

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> Heady stuff Ed!  Due process be dammed; off with my head LOL!
>
> What I think is interesting about how this thread is evolving is that both
> individuals and clubs have a choice to make.
>
> For individuals: to register or not?  A personal matter, just between each
> one of us and our regulator.  I will not ask you what you plan to do, your
> business.
>
> For clubs: to let registration be a personal matter between individuals
> and the regulator; or to intervene, demanding proof of registration for
> membership?
>
> While I favor John Ford’s approach to compliance where my registration
> number will be my own private business; I can see where clubs will want it
> too if they believe that proof of registration is important to securing
> their future for the greater good of club members.  Both choices have
> merits & risks, right?
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dana
>
> The identity theft risk with the FAA number is that if someone places your
> number on their model and causes property damage or injuries or worse, then
> the FAA and law enforcement are coming down on your head.
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Dana Beaton <danamaenia at me.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ed, Andy and I joined Buc-Le in Quakertown this week since Farview
> closed (due to excess turbine traffic outraging the neighbors, having
> nothing to do with drones or nefarious non-members).  Buc-Le requires that
> club membership cards, or AMA cards for guests, be placed on the board
> while we fly.  Many clubs have a system like this.  The LVRCS still does,
> but we now permit members to wear their membership cards if they don’t want
> to use the board.  Someone who wants to borrow an identity, copy or steal
> an AMA card, can just stroll up to the box: No need for someone to help one
> of us find parts to a downed model, it’s that simple today to grab a name
> and number of someone who is reputable in the hobby to hide behind.  I have
> not heard of this happeningso it seems so unlikely, even now with
> registration coming down the pike.
>
> In the coming compliance environment, the new normal for AMA members, what
> may mar our hobby is reputable hobbyist pilots NOT registering?  I get that
> a lot of us are angry at what has transpired, but let’s think through the
> more probable scenarios and avoid needless troubles for ourselves and clubs.
>
> Decades ago when I was training for my Private Pilot ticket we still had
> the large registration numbers, N numbers, on general aviation planes.
> Every instructor had stories about the one little old lady who called the
> police every time she saw a low flying aircraft overhead.  While the pilot
> in question may have been in fact at a legal altitude/separation per the
> FARs, that did not stop those nuisance calls.  When the police came to ask
> around in these stories, nothing ever came of the complaints as the pilots,
> operators, etc. all had their documents in order and were flying
> responsibly.  Just crank calls that burdened the cops, resulting no
> problems for the flight school.  What I am getting at is if and when our
> neighbor calls around about activity at our clubs, should the locals come
> around asking, we will have all our documents in order.  If asked, like
> John suggests, we can produce registration.  End of story.
>
> OTOH, if neighbors complain and local authorities cannot establish that
> club members are operating within guidelines, there could be more questions
> than the situation would otherwise merit.  That is the more likely scenario
> in my mind than bad actors stealing my identity to fly drones badly.  We
> might want to worry more about the mundane stuff like that than the more
> elaborate scenarios?
>
> Respectfully/anonymously (LOL),
> Dana
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> That should work for the most part.  Don't ever let anyone help you look
> for a lost/crashed model I guess.  There are still complications for
> various scenarios, such as for anyone who wants to teach a student to fly
> etc.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: jsf106 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:37:04 -0500
> CC: ed_alt at hotmail.com
> To: mark.grabowski at comcast.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> On my plane, the number will be accessible without tools, per the rule,
> but unless asked by an FAA official, I'm not offering to show where it is
> to anyone.
> I need to have my registration with me, and I will, but no one gets to see
> it. As the rule says, this is between me and the FAA.
>
> Not up to the clubs or the AMA to police individuals on behalf of the FAA,
> so identity theft should not be a problem.
>
> John
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Comcast via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Been thinking the very same thing. Someone steals a user number, does
> something stupid and then there's a knock at my door. Without a great alibi
> what are you gonna do???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Speaking of use cases, perhaps I missed it in the flurry of emails
> yesterday, but has anyone thought about the identity theft risk that the
> FAA is creating?  By registering the pilot and not having unique
> identification numbers for each model that are assigned to an owner, it
> sets up the scenario for anyone else to use your number on their model and
> cause virtually unlimited problems for you, anywhere, anytime.  To help
> reduce this risk, at the very least, the numbers would have to be provided
> by the FAA with some sort of marking, holography, whatever to at least
> raise the difficulty of identity theft from zero to something above zero.
> You can apparently use a felt marker to scribble your own numbers as it
> stands now.
>
> Better yet, from an identity theft perspective at least, there should be
> unique numbers for each model provided to the owner.  This, of course would
> drive costs way up and incur delays.
>
> We should put the central planners in charge of every aspect of our lives
> now, should we not?  They've really shown their true colors on this one.
> Incompetent boobs, every last one of them.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:53:22 -0800
> To: acornacchione at hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> Honestly, I think thats one of the use-cases the FAA didn't think through
> real well...
>
> My belief is that this whole thing is about creating a sense of
> accountability for the "rogue" users (I'm not willing to give them the term
> pilot because they don't deserve it) who do stupid shit like flying around
> a wildfire and preventing Calfire airborne response for 20+ minutes, etc.
> It's about dealing with the anti-AMA guys who fly 120+mph EDFs weighing 6+
> lbs over an active soccer game at a local park, it's about dealing with the
> dipshits who fly their drone on the takeoff/approach path of an active full
> scale airport in hopes of "cool footage".  The AMA field flyers are the
> least of the FAA's worries and we're blowing it out of proportion.  Yes,
> it's a stupid regulation, but let's comply where we can and show ourselves
> to be the responsible modelers the AMA says we are.
>
> For the foreign guys, first of all, sorry for the needless red tape
> (though I think a similar thing is coming for the BMFA guys in the UK and
> it would not surprise me to see a more sensible version of this from the
> Canadian guys).  But if I were CD'ing a contest and some guys came down
> from the Great White North, I'd happily hook them up with some temporary
> form of my own registration # to put in their planes for the purposes of
> flying at the contest because I know them to be responsible pilots.
>
> Peter+
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Anthony Cornacchione via NSRCA-discussion
>  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Legit question with an unknown answer:  how will this impact international
> (IMAC Worlds in Muncie 2018) NATS with international competitors (NATS News
> this year had a nice write up) and our local contests which have had the
> occasional Canadian wander south?
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Boaters register their pleasure craft, fishermen & hunters buy licenses,
> some folks even register their firearms! So what? Are we going to give up
> our hobby just because of a tiny pice of red tape? Nope! Just keep flying.
> The bad actors who misuse their aircraft will run afoul local authorities
> sure enough, that's their problem, not ours.  We need to continue to set
> the good example though our good flying.  Good flying will carry the day.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> So, just shut up and drink the Kool-Aid?
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Derek
> Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 6:15 PM
> *To:* Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>
> Yep.... yep... yep.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Hasn’t that private information ship already sailed?  We all register cars
> and think nothing of it.  Heck, we even took classes, got educated, and
> were tested for a license before we could own or operate a car and we have
> to renew that every four years and prove we’re still physically capable
> (minimal proof admittedly).  Personally not sure a gun should be much
> different but don’t want to start that discussion (especially since I’m
> generally pro gun…just not pro redneck hill jack survivalist conspiracy
> theorist) but not registering to fly airplanes?  Really?    We trade more
> info internationally downloading a Facebook app.    Also, we’re already
> registered… just with the AMA, not the USA.  And yes, the AMA is trying to
> make that our ONLY registration, but that’s just a proposal at this point.
>
>
> Guys… we already do ALL of this.  Our AMA # is on the plane, we follow
> safety rules, blah blah blah.  This is a very minor inconvenience and if
> the AMA proposal to use our AMA# for our registration number it won’t even
> be that.
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Now is the time for massive civil disobedience!
> I don't think I'd register my planes any more than I'd register my guns.
> Too bad AMA has no clout like the NRA.
> Dave
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
> Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 1:23 PM
> *To:* Scott McHarg; General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>
> Morons at work….
>
> -           Robert Beaubien
> -           DronePlastics.com <http://droneplastics.com/>
>
> “Dear Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X.  She's never coming
> back and don't ask Y.”
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:05 AM
> *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>
> Well, here it is boys and girls.  It's official and starts next Monday.
> The link is for the FAQ's of what's happening.
>
>  You only have to register once and you don't have to individually
> register all of your models.
> You must be able to provide proof of registration and have it on you when
> flying.
> You must have your Registration # (not going to be a N number) in your
> airplane where it is legible and accessible without the use of tools (aka
> under your canopy).
> If you sell a model, you should update your records. (I don't completely
> understand this if we aren't registering all of our models individually
> but, OK)
> Registration is $5 but you'll get that back if you register in the first
> 30 days, I believe.
>
> Have a look at the link and prepare to be upset.....
>
> http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
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> --
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
>
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