[NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair

Wed Apr 9 04:32:52 AKDT 2014

Hey Del,
How are ya buddy? Y'know, at one time we had a 15 meter rule for entry and
exit lines. I don't know if that went away or just got buried in the
mountain of confusion that has permeated the rulebook over the years.
Somehow it seems that, over the last generation, a lot of babies have found
themselves inadvertently discarded into the washwater pool.
G.

On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Del R <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:

>  Playing devils advocate here but how is a judge supposed to know if you
> argue one uses the straight line drawn where in the straight line do you
> start to judge the next maneuver? Is the judge take all straight lines and
> split them down the middle and give 1/2 to the preceding maneuver? That
> also is never clearly addressed! Thus judges for years have been forced to
> make assumptions of where maneuvers truly start. Thus many looked for the
> first push or pull and as long as it was preceded by a straight line all
> were happy. (Judge and contestant) Creating maneuvers that create judging
> headaches don't help. Clearly defined leads to well presented. Some
> maneuvers have longer straight lines than others. When you barely have a
> straight line presented at all doesn't that create grounds for downgrade?
> It is not specifically mentioned.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* George Kennie <geobet4evr at gmail.com>
> *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2014 8:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] >From the Judges Chair
>
>  Boy, you guys got me wondering what all the hub-bub was all about so I
> had to go and take a look and I think that I'm probably in partial
> agreement with John. As I see it,It's simple geometry. After the turnaround
> it has to be classified as a "center maneuver" and center maneuvers should
> be centered !  The total width of the maneuver is equal to the diameter of
> the loop, therefore the loop must be presented in a way that displays one
> half of it's area, irrespective of it's size, on either side of the center
> line which would require that the vertical upline be offset past center on
> entry a distance equal to the radius of the loop. The loop is the key
> element for the centering of this maneuver and the Aresti is incorrectly
> drawn IMHO.   Sorry if I muddied the waters here guys, but the forum
> appeared to be open.
> Georgie
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:02 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Derek,
>> "Somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion" is awfully vague and unjudgeable. I
>> could buy anywhere in the 3/4 loop portion but not somewhere.
>> The center you are describing would appear to be affected somehow by the
>> entry and exit lines of the maneuver as per your description in the March
>> K-Factor. I don't see that. This maneuver(figure 9) could be described as a
>> single loop with a straight vertical line between the first quadrant and
>> the last three quadrants. What rolls occur do not affect that basic shape.
>> That places the center of the maneuver at the initial pullup into a quarter
>> loop just as it would for a simple loop. The apex of the 3/4 loop would
>> also be on the centerline and so would the return to level flight at the
>> exit.
>> As far as the straight line entry and exit being somehow offset, I don't
>> see that either. The entry line ends at the quarter loop pullup and exit
>> line begins upon completion of the 3/4 loop. Those two points should form a
>> vertical line. I see that as the maneuver centerline as well.
>> It's certainly true that the aresti shows the wrong center and it is
>> certainly true that the sub-committee chair has the last word but he should
>> be using a better word than "somewhere".
>> John
>> On 4/8/2014 3:22 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>>
>>  Anthony,
>>
>>
>>
>> This shouldn't be confusing at all... the center of the maneuver is the
>> middle point between the start and end of the maneuver.  How much more
>> simple can it get?   The statement that the "middle should be somewhere in
>> the 3/4 loop portion" is correct - depending on the size of the 3/4 loop which
>> must match the radius of the 1/4 loop from horizontal to vertical when the
>> maneuver starts.  That center portion will change for every pilot as each
>> pilot will fly it differently.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your comment about "many outside the US" isn't accurate - if they see it
>> differently then they are incorrect.  The clarification I got is straight
>> from the F3 sub-committee chair...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Derek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [
>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Anthony Romano
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2014 11:27 AM
>> *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair
>>
>>
>>
>> Would love to see a review of maneuver 13 of the Finals sequence. In the
>> March Kfactor the center was described as "should be the middle of the
>> maneuver somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion." While the many outside the US
>> see it that the loop is centered and the Aresti in the latest FAI sporting
>> code show the upline being centered.
>>
>>
>>
>> A bit confusing,
>>
>>
>>
>> Anthony
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:00 -0700
>> From: joncarter60 at comcast.net
>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair
>>
>> Hey guys - we got an excellent suggestion from the group for last month's
>> article so I thought I would ask again! Anyone have a burning maneuver or
>> judging question? Just let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon Carter
>>
>> Judging Committee Chairman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing
>> list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20140409/9120174b/attachment.html>