[NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair

John Gayer jgghome at comcast.net
Tue Apr 8 14:42:49 AKDT 2014


Derek,
The input radius of the first quarter loop is part of the maneuver and 
defines the radius of the 3/4 loop. If you initiate the 1/4 loop on the 
center pole, the center of the maneuver does not shift with radius size 
and is centered in the box. In other words,size doesn't matter.
John
On 4/8/2014 4:24 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>
> I don't think you can leave off the input radius because the input 
> radius size will change where center is located.
>
> *From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Jas S
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2014 3:15 PM
> *To:* General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] >From the Judges Chair
>
> I've always enjoyed that pattern had definition (centers, box...) and 
> that's why I don't fly IMAC but once a year if at that.
>
> If the start of the 9 is at the bottom 1/4 loop (minus entry line),
>
> and the end is at the end of the 3/4 loop (minus the exit line),
>
> and the bottom and top radii are equal (as are the entry and exit lines),
>
> wouldn't the center be the start of the bottom loop/middle of roll/top 
> of 3/4 loop/finish of 3/4 loop?
>
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Daniel Underkofler <underdw at gmail.com 
> <mailto:underdw at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thank you!  My thoughts exactly
>
>     On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net
>     <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>         Derek,
>         "Somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion" is awfully vague and
>         unjudgeable. I could buy anywhere in the 3/4 loop portion but
>         not somewhere.
>         The center you are describing would appear to be affected
>         somehow by the entry and exit lines of the maneuver as per
>         your description in the March K-Factor. I don't see that. This
>         maneuver(figure 9) could be described as a single loop with a
>         straight vertical line between the first quadrant and the last
>         three quadrants. What rolls occur do not affect that basic
>         shape. That places the center of the maneuver at the initial
>         pullup into a quarter loop just as it would for a simple loop.
>         The apex of the 3/4 loop would also be on the centerline and
>         so would the return to level flight at the exit.
>         As far as the straight line entry and exit being somehow
>         offset, I don't see that either. The entry line ends at the
>         quarter loop pullup and exit line begins upon completion of
>         the 3/4 loop. Those two points should form a vertical line. I
>         see that as the maneuver centerline as well.
>         It's certainly true that the aresti shows the wrong center and
>         it is certainly true that the sub-committee chair has the last
>         word but he should be using a better word than "somewhere".
>         John
>
>         On 4/8/2014 3:22 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>
>             Anthony,
>
>             This shouldn't be confusing at all... the center of the
>             maneuver is the middle point between the start and end of
>             the maneuver.  How much more simple can it get?   The
>             statement that the "middle should be somewhere in the ¾
>             loop portion" is correct -- depending on the size of the ¾
>             loop which must match the radius of the ¼ loop from
>             horizontal to vertical when the maneuver starts.  That
>             center portion will change for every pilot as each pilot
>             will fly it differently.
>
>             Your comment about "many outside the US" isn't accurate --
>             if they see it differently then they are incorrect. The
>             clarification I got is straight from the F3 sub-committee
>             chair...
>
>             -Derek
>
>             *From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>             [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
>             Behalf Of *Anthony Romano
>             *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2014 11:27 AM
>             *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair
>
>             Would love to see a review of maneuver 13 of the Finals
>             sequence. In the March Kfactor the center was described as
>             "should be the middle of the maneuver somewhere in the ¾
>             loop portion." While the many outside the US see it that
>             the loop is centered and the Aresti in the latest FAI
>             sporting code show the upline being centered.
>
>             A bit confusing,
>
>             Anthony
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:00 -0700
>             From: joncarter60 at comcast.net <mailto:joncarter60 at comcast.net>
>             To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>             Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair
>
>             Hey guys - we got an excellent suggestion from the group
>             for last month's article so I thought I would ask again!
>             Anyone have a burning maneuver or judging question? Just
>             let me know.
>
>             Thanks,
>
>             Jon Carter
>
>             Judging Committee Chairman
>
>             Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
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>
> -- 
>
> Jason
> http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/
>
>
>
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