[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
Jon Lowe
jonlowe at aol.com
Thu Mar 14 04:45:50 AKDT 2013
Just got an answer from Colleen Pierce of AMA on the FAI stamp.
"Of the $50.00 collected by AMA, $39.00 goes to the NAA and AMA keeps $11.00.
Any additional income would obviously help the program even if it is only the $11.00, but higher numbers are always a good selling point. If we could state that XXX amount of people support the program, it can become more of a selling point when trying to justify the program."
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
You forgot to put “trust fund” in quotes.
From: Ronald Van Putte
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:37 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
Yeah, kinda like some $ ought go in the U.S. Social Security trust fund and not the U.S. general fund. <VBG>
Ron Van Putte
On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
I'd be for this as well... but we definitely need to ensure it goes to the F3A program and not into the general FAI fund.
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote:
+1 from me. I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at local contests. It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate participation, though I think we need to see where that money goes….
Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com> | www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of the USA/FAI community. It would probably require the blessing of AMA but a way to do this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA sanctioned competition with FAI as one of the events. At the Nats require a $50 fee to fly semis and beyond. Typically, anyone that flies well enough to make the semis is a committed competitor and is willing and typically understands the need to charge for the privilege of flying at that level. This would also resolve the issue of number of flyers committed to the FAI program.
Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists and FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the USA spends far more than anyone else to support FAI, the powers at AMA have little interest is paying big bucks for F3A, particularly since the competitors will not support its own program. It is sad that many competitors that have more than enough money will make no real effort or even avoid the chance to help in some way. Therefore, the typical solution would be to make financial needs be met by fees of some sort.
If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be more than happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.
In my view it is an across the board issue.
regards
Mike
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them “Its for your own good” . . .
From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM
To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally webbased for the Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover all or part of the cost?
> From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> Correct, it's $50.
>
> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking about $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM meetings. With our membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should almost be part of our charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside of FAI, but AMA Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around) and will truly lose it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately, but over time.
>
> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to get AMA funding to help support our USA team…something that I do think the AMA should, and will continue to do provided that there is adequate support. It's almost a separate issue.
>
> -M
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com> | www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>> wrote:
>
> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen Pierce at AMA and she will sign you up!!
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>
> To: nsrca-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> John,
> The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was over and above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for the trial is what AMA uses as part of the formula to see what teams they will support for World Championships. They also use performance at previous WC's in the formula. Mark Atwood has the details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew had not made the podium at the last WC, that we would have fallen below the threshold for AMA support for this year's WC.
>
> I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>>
> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
>
> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp. I
> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events. I do not
> think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently costs?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the reality
> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying to
> determine how to completely support them all is financially impractical in
> this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but our total
> participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think a total of 10
> people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but regardless, it
> become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep for every FAI program
> that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11 participants
> in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the same.
>
> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget in
> some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the total number
> that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we follow,
> and establish all the rules for our international competitions. It's
> important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com>?>> |
> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
>
> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for 3
> nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would estimate at
> least another $800 everything else.
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
> <vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> How much would you need?
>
> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I voted
> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that travel
> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid for myself
> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
>
> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from the
> rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face meetings
> accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great
> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it will be
> in jeopardy.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
> <silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox.net>?>>> wrote:
> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring side
> of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring being one
> of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US is taking
> notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to go to the
> meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it themselves.
> Here's the thread:
>
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
>
> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
>
> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
> led/
>
> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is talked
> about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal submitted for
> consideration.
>
> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US F3A CIAM
> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
>
> Bill in OC
>
>
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