[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
Phil S.
chuenkan at comcast.net
Wed Mar 13 14:52:39 AKDT 2013
Ditto for the USPS, Ron, but that'll never happen with the jerky idiots
we have in Washington these days!
;-{( Makes me lose all faith in the voting system.
OTOH, I would support having NSRCA provide funds for our US F3A team. I
would renew my membership and donate to the F3A team, even though I
don't fly AMA pattern any more...
Phil Spelt, KCRC Past President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c
On 3/13/2013 6:37 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:
> Yeah, kinda like some $ ought go in the U.S. Social Security trust
> fund and not the U.S. general fund. <VBG>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>
>> I'd be for this as well... but we definitely need to ensure it goes
>> to the F3A program and not into the general FAI fund.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Atwood, Mark
>> <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com <mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>> wrote:
>>
>> +1 from me. I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI
>> at local contests. It would indeed go a long way toward helping
>> us demonstrate participation, though I think we need to see where
>> that money goes....
>>
>>
>> Mark Atwood
>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 <tel:440.684.3101%20x102> | Direct:
>> 440-229-2502 <tel:440-229-2502>
>> Fax: 440.684.3102 <tel:440.684.3102>
>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>> | www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison"
>> <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net
>> <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net><mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net
>> <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>>> wrote:
>>
>> My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of
>> the USA/FAI community. It would probably require the blessing of
>> AMA but a way to do this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any
>> AMA sanctioned competition with FAI as one of the events. At the
>> Nats require a $50 fee to fly semis and beyond. Typically,
>> anyone that flies well enough to make the semis is a committed
>> competitor and is willing and typically understands the need to
>> charge for the privilege of flying at that level. This would
>> also resolve the issue of number of flyers committed to the FAI
>> program.
>>
>> Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition
>> hobbyists and FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the
>> USA spends far more than anyone else to support FAI, the powers
>> at AMA have little interest is paying big bucks for F3A,
>> particularly since the competitors will not support its own
>> program. It is sad that many competitors that have more than
>> enough money will make no real effort or even avoid the chance to
>> help in some way. Therefore, the typical solution would be to
>> make financial needs be met by fees of some sort.
>>
>> If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be
>> more than happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.
>>
>> In my view it is an across the board issue.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>] On Behalf Of Keith
>> Hoard
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>
>> Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them "Its for
>> your own good" . . .
>>
>> From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com
>> <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM
>> To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>
>> Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally
>> webbased for the Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover
>> all or part of the cost?
>>
>> > From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com><mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>>
>> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> > Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>> >
>> > Correct, it's $50.
>> >
>> > But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking
>> about $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM
>> meetings. With our membership that's less than a $1 a person.
>> This should almost be part of our charter. I realize that AMA
>> pattern has a life outside of FAI, but AMA Pattern was born from
>> FAI (not the other way around) and will truly lose it's direction
>> without it. Maybe not immediately, but over time.
>> >
>> > Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to
>> get AMA funding to help support our USA team...something that I
>> do think the AMA should, and will continue to do provided that
>> there is adequate support. It's almost a separate issue.
>> >
>> > -M
>> > Mark Atwood
>> > Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>> > 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> > Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
>> > Fax: 440.684.3102
>> > mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>> | www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/><http://www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen
>> Pierce at AMA and she will sign you up!!
>> > Jon
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com
>> <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>>
>> > To: nsrca-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
>> > Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>> >
>> > John,
>> > The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was
>> over and above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for
>> the trial is what AMA uses as part of the formula to see what
>> teams they will support for World Championships. They also use
>> performance at previous WC's in the formula. Mark Atwood has the
>> details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew had not made the
>> podium at the last WC, that we would have fallen below the
>> threshold for AMA support for this year's WC.
>> >
>> > I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.
>> > Jon
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com
>> <mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com
>> <mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>><mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com <mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>>>
>> > To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
>> > Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>> >
>> >
>> > If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an
>> FAI stamp. I
>> > used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events.
>> I do not
>> > think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently
>> costs?
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>?>] On Behalf Of
>> Atwood, Mark
>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
>> > To: General pattern discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>> >
>> > We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some
>> of the reality
>> > is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that
>> trying to
>> > determine how to completely support them all is financially
>> impractical in
>> > this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but our total
>> > participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think a
>> total of 10
>> > people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but
>> regardless, it
>> > become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep for every
>> FAI program
>> > that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11
>> participants
>> > in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the same.
>> >
>> > We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA
>> budget in
>> > some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the
>> total number
>> > that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that
>> we follow,
>> > and establish all the rules for our international competitions.
>> It's
>> > important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.
>> >
>> > Just my $0.02
>> >
>> >
>> > Mark Atwood
>> > Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>> > 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> > Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
>> > Fax: 440.684.3102
>> > mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><http://paragon-inc.com
>> <http://paragon-inc.com/>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><http://paragon-inc.com
>> <http://paragon-inc.com/>>?>> |
>> > www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/><http://www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>> > <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>>?>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is
>> food/accommodations for 3
>> > nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would
>> estimate at
>> > least another $800 everything else.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
>> > <vogel.peter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com>><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com>><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>>?>>> wrote:
>> > How much would you need?
>> >
>> > And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I
>> voted
>> > against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
>> >
>> > Peter+
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>> > <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com/>>?>>> wrote:
>> > That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that
>> travel
>> > expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I
>> paid for myself
>> > or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
>> >
>> > I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A)
>> from the
>> > rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but
>> face-to-face meetings
>> > accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great
>> > relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that
>> it will be
>> > in jeopardy.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
>> > <silentav8r at cox.net
>> <mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net
>> <mailto:silentav8r at cox.net>><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net
>> <mailto:silentav8r at cox.net>><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net
>> <mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><http://cox.net
>> <http://cox.net/>><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net
>> <mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><http://cox.net <http://cox.net/>>?>>>
>> wrote:
>> > Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the
>> soaring side
>> > of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events,
>> soaring being one
>> > of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US is
>> taking
>> > notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to go
>> to the
>> > meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it
>> themselves.
>> > Here's the thread:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1 <http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1>
>> >
>> > This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
>> >
>> >
>> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
>> > led/
>> >
>> > F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M
>> is talked
>> > about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal
>> submitted for
>> > consideration.
>> >
>> > Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that
>> our US F3A CIAM
>> > rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
>> >
>> > Bill in OC
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
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>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>> > Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>> > [http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg]
>> >
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