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<font face="Arial">Ditto for the USPS, Ron, but that'll never happen
with the jerky idiots we have in Washington these days! <br>
;-{( Makes me lose all faith in the voting system.<br>
<br>
OTOH, I would support having NSRCA provide funds for our US F3A team.
I would renew my membership and donate to the F3A team, even though I
don't fly AMA pattern any more...<br>
</font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Phil Spelt, KCRC Past President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c</pre>
<br>
On 3/13/2013 6:37 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:6B03C857-DF70-44D6-9DE2-301DD091742D@cox.net"
type="cite">Yeah, kinda like some $ ought go in the U.S. Social
Security trust fund and not the U.S. general fund. <VBG>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron Van Putte</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">I'd be for this as well... but we definitely
need to ensure it goes to the F3A program and not into the general FAI
fund.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Atwood,
Mark <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">+1
from me. I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at local
contests. It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate
participation, though I think we need to see where that money goes….<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark Atwood<br>
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<br>
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<br>
Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:440.684.3101%20x102"
value="+14406843101">440.684.3101 x102</a> | Direct: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:440-229-2502" value="+14402292502">440-229-2502</a><br>
Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:440.684.3102"
value="+14406843102">440.684.3102</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://www.paragon-inc.com/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of the
USA/FAI community. It would probably require the blessing of AMA but
a way to do this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA sanctioned
competition with FAI as one of the events. At the Nats require a $50
fee to fly semis and beyond. Typically, anyone that flies well enough
to make the semis is a committed competitor and is willing and
typically understands the need to charge for the privilege of flying at
that level. This would also resolve the issue of number of flyers
committed to the FAI program.<br>
<br>
Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists
and FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the USA spends far
more than anyone else to support FAI, the powers at AMA have little
interest is paying big bucks for F3A, particularly since the
competitors will not support its own program. It is sad that many
competitors that have more than enough money will make no real effort
or even avoid the chance to help in some way. Therefore, the typical
solution would be to make financial needs be met by fees of some sort.<br>
<br>
If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be more
than happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.<br>
<br>
In my view it is an across the board issue.<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>>]
On Behalf Of Keith Hoard<br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
<br>
Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them “Its for your
own good” . . .<br>
<br>
From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM<br>
To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
<br>
Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally webbased for
the Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover all or part of the
cost?<br>
<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
><br>
> Correct, it's $50.<br>
><br>
> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking
about $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM meetings.
With our membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should almost
be part of our charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside
of FAI, but AMA Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around)
and will truly lose it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately,
but over time.<br>
><br>
> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to get
AMA funding to help support our USA team…something that I do think the
AMA should, and will continue to do provided that there is adequate
support. It's almost a separate issue.<br>
><br>
> -M<br>
> Mark Atwood<br>
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<br>
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<br>
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502<br>
> Fax: 440.684.3102<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://www.paragon-inc.com</a>><<a
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target="_blank">http://www.paragon-inc.com/</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen Pierce
at AMA and she will sign you up!!<br>
> Jon<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Jon Lowe <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>>><br>
> To: nsrca-discussion <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>><br>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
><br>
> John,<br>
> The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was
over and above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for the
trial is what AMA uses as part of the formula to see what teams they
will support for World Championships. They also use performance at
previous WC's in the formula. Mark Atwood has the details. I beleive
Mark told me that if Andrew had not made the podium at the last WC,
that we would have fallen below the threshold for AMA support for this
year's WC.<br>
><br>
> I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.<br>
> Jon<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: John Fuqua <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a>>><br>
> To: 'General pattern discussion' <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>><br>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
><br>
><br>
> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI
stamp. I<br>
> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events. I
do not<br>
> think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently
costs?<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><mailto:<a
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href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>>?>]
On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM<br>
> To: General pattern discussion<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<br>
><br>
> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of
the reality<br>
> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that
trying to<br>
> determine how to completely support them all is financially
impractical in<br>
> this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but our total<br>
> participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think a
total of 10<br>
> people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but
regardless, it<br>
> become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep for every
FAI program<br>
> that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11
participants<br>
> in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the same.<br>
><br>
> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA
budget in<br>
> some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the
total number<br>
> that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we
follow,<br>
> and establish all the rules for our international competitions.
It's<br>
> important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.<br>
><br>
> Just my $0.02<br>
><br>
><br>
> Mark Atwood<br>
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<br>
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<br>
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502<br>
> Fax: 440.684.3102<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>><mailto:<a
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moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://paragon-inc.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://paragon-inc.com</a>>?>>
|<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://www.paragon-inc.com</a>><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target="_blank">http://www.paragon-inc.com/</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>>?>>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations
for 3<br>
> nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would
estimate at<br>
> least another $800 everything else.<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>>?>>>
wrote:<br>
> How much would you need?<br>
><br>
> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I
voted<br>
> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...<br>
><br>
> Peter+<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>>?>>>
wrote:<br>
> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that
travel<br>
> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid
for myself<br>
> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.<br>
><br>
> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A)
from the<br>
> rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face
meetings<br>
> accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great<br>
> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it
will be<br>
> in jeopardy.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cox.net/" target="_blank">http://cox.net</a>><mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cox.net/" target="_blank">http://cox.net</a>>?>>>
wrote:<br>
> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the
soaring side<br>
> of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring
being one<br>
> of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US is
taking<br>
> notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to go to
the<br>
> meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it
themselves.<br>
> Here's the thread:<br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1"
target="_blank">http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1</a><br>
><br>
> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:<br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance"
target="_blank">http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance</a><br>
> led/<br>
><br>
> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is
talked<br>
> about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal
submitted for<br>
> consideration.<br>
><br>
> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our
US F3A CIAM<br>
> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.<br>
><br>
> Bill in OC<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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