[NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates

[Jon Lowe]

While I'm not a fan of the "tax" idea, most of us recognize that competition improves RC, and FAI and other events such as the old TOC improve it most of all.  Without competition at the top level, advances in equipment, planes, power plants, etc wouldn't happen nearly as fast.   When I first got back into the hobby, digital servos were just coming out, only in top of the line models, and were very expensive.  That technology has now trickled down to the rest of the sport, and everyone benefits.  Same with computer radios and electric powered planes


It just so happens that this years WC is in a place expensive to get to, and we are sending four team members, not just three.  They are representing our country in the Olympics of our sport. Hopefully most participants in our sport recognize that and will offer to help out.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates


Hey Keith,

I appreciate the comment actually as I sort of feel the same way.  I've made 
sure that EVERYONE on the team is working actively in the fund raising (Trading 
effort and labor for money) and at the end, all will very likely still be paying 
for a portion of their trip.   Talking with Jason and Andrew, each WC has cost 
them $3000-$5000 out of pocket to go, over and above what was donated.    We're 
working hard to reduce that number but it's a reality.

And your correct, no one should expect a free trip.  We're just working to help 
these guys represent us in our chosen hobby as the best we have.  

Support is appreciated…not expected.  

Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502 
Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com





On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com> wrote:

What makes you think that us lower class guys care to "support" the FAI team?  
Some of you make it sound like we owe y'all a free trip.

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN

On Feb 27, 2013, at 16:28, "Chuck Hochhalter" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> We could add 5 bucks to every local contest entry and donate that to FAI.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net> 
wrote:
> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> Another option is to adjust the entry fee for all classes. Maybe 25.00 per 
and all of that goes to the team. Would be easy enough to do.
>> 
>> Arch
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>> Date:
>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> As a side to that…
>> 
>> We need to have a serious discussion about the team selection and our 
"Official" participation levels.  FAI GUYS!!!!  We NEED many more of you to sign 
up for the team selection event (be it part of the Nats or otherwise in 2014) if 
we're going to continue to get the same level of funding that we get now from 
the AMA.   To do that, I think we need to drastically lower the price tag.  The 
price tag ($170) is reminiscent of holding a separate event and paying for the 
judges to come for 4 days and judge.   That's no longer an expense burden that 
the selection contest bears.
>> 
>> The AMA has made "participation" a critical point factor in determining the 
level of financial support that each team receives.   We don't get a lot of 
money, but they do pay for the World Championship entry fees ($900 /pilot, $500 
/team manager, $150 /caller ) which is a lot, and they help with some of the 
hotel bill.  It's a fraction of what we need, but it's still a big help.  For 
this year's WC's it's about $7800 of the $60K we'll need.  But if we don't 
increase our participation, we'll lose it.
>> 
>> This past Nats we had 30+ FAI flyers… but less than 10 participated in the 
team trial….meaning they paid the entry fee.  Admittedly, I was one who did not.  
I finished 11th, but that's a far cry from top 3, so spending $170 "Just to 
participate" didn't seem like a good value proposition.  But if we can lower the 
cost to say $30, or something reasonable, then I would participate simply to 
support the team (that's where the entry fee money goes by the way…all of it) 
especially knowing that it will motivate the AMA to continue their funding.
>> 
>> I'll hammer this home more next year when it's more relevant, but thought I'd 
chime in now :)
>> 
>> Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Atwood
>> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  |  
www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Budd Engineering <jerry at buddengineering.com<mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com>> 
wrote:
>> 
>> Or a LOT easier because it's gotten so small.  It's occurred to some of us 
over the past several years that you could hold the US Team Trials at a good 
local field and still have an as good, if not better, team selection contest as 
we do now.
>> 
>> Incidentally, when I mentioned this to a couple of the AMA people at the show 
in Ontario last month it was made quite clear that the "powers that be" in AMA 
have absolutely no interest in allowing the Team Selection contest to ever be 
held anywhere but at the AMA site in Muncie.  Go Figure.
>> 
>> -0
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net<mailto:burtona at atmc.net>> 
wrote:
>> 
>> Amen +2
>> 
>> As pattern participation continues to shrink the possibility of having the 
resources to hold the Nats at a different venue gets even more difficult.
>> Dave
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:54 AM
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" 
Bortone
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:43 AM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> +1
>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com>>
>> To: "Archie Stafford" <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>, 
"General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:36:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> OK I want to play devil's advocate.
>> What is all this talk about an off site Nats about?
>> Is it that we need to move it around to allow new people to participate? Or 
is it the changes to the schedule that basically takes away a half day of 
practice?
>> In my opinion it's not that big of a deal. Moving the Nats off site would be 
a huge endeavor. Who has the resources, energy and financial where with all to 
achieve this?
>> I doubt that we could pull it off. Unless a lot of effort was put forth to 
make it happen.
>> I think the AMA has supported us in a decent manner.
>> Also look at the current BOD of the AMA and you'll see that pattern is well 
represented with more than our share. We also have Muncie employess who are 
pattern fliers. We have friends in high places and I think we're doing pretty 
well.
>> I'm luck enough to go to the Muncie facility for 3 contests every year. I'm 
amazed at the support we get from the AMA staff every time we go there.
>> Things could be a lot worse. Thanks, Mike Mueller
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>> 
wrote:
>> 
>> From: Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 8:44 PM
>> IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago.
>> 
>> Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more park 
flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club,  with 86 
members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids would rather fly 
foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do anything for them. The 
younger members are just different. 3D and helis are much more exciting to them. 
Times have changed.
>> 
>> Arch
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com>>
>> Date:
>> To: vicenterc at comcast.net,'General<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,'General> 
pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us.  With their 
attendance I’m surprised the AMA will even give them a week.  Not that I’m 
suggesting they don’t deserve a week.  One of the issues I have with the NATS is 
that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS and FAI that don’t 
make the cut don’t get any more flights than a regular weekend contest.  Perhaps 
more would attend if we offered every pilot 12 guaranteed flights.  That would 
make it more likely that the west coasters would make the long trip to Muncie.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer.  You get 
hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the graceful 
flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the roar of a 4 
engine B-17.  These are all endeavors that are not associated with the typical 
AMA member.  If the AMA thinks they can survive without these folks then let 
them try.  What these groups need to do is stop supporting the AMA with their 
articles, photos, etc.  They’ll have nothing to draw the attention of new 
members.  AMA membership will never be what it used to be because kids now a day 
are so much busier than they used to be and there are so many more thinks 
competing for their interest.  We need to find a financially viable solution for 
both the NSRCA and the AMA not to mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS 
there would be no AMA.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of 
vicenterc at comcast.net<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net>
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks.  I got to work 
tomorrow.
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter@gmail.com>>
>> Sender: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02
>> To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Reply-To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the Tullahoma 
airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the "picnic".  On the 
way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm.  When I mentioned the storm to some 
attendee the next day, they said, "What thunderstorm?"
>> 
>> BTW, what did they call that stuff they served?  Was it Lynchburg Lemonade?  
It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:
>> 
>>> At least that part you remember
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>] 
On Behalf Of Ronald Van
>>> Putte
>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM
>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>> 
>>> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Scott,  I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I voice
>>> that!)   Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever.  Obviously enough
>>> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete boycott of
>>> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.
>>>> 
>>>> Peter, has the nats every
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