[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals

Sat Mar 17 05:24:19 AKDT 2012

John

Very true your statement .. The weight proposal that passed before did not come through the NSRCA board . I found out by reading RCU.  And having been a board member during that time would not have backed ,supported  or campaigned against  it as a member  of the board . The new proposal  Joe pr anyone else put out is not at issue as a matter of fact I have no issue with any proposal any member submits as a member. Even though I disagree with just about all of them and do not support them.  For Reasons I have already stated on several occasions.

What I take issue with is the boards backing of the proposals as an organization . When the survey that was taken only had 105 or so respondents and roughly of those respondents it was nearly split even or close to it. So we have 400+ members 100 or so took the survey and it was split 50/50 or dang close to it. 1/4 of the membership voted the split was 50/50 that means 12% of the NSRCA  or so are in favor . Yet the board passes a proclamation to throw its  weight behind the proposals as if the entirety of NSRCA membership is behind said proposals. Two of the board  members are posting here and there waving the flag for the submitted proposals that the board has backed with statements about cost savings etc.etc. Statements such as yours about attendance a the NATS  tied to weight and another statement by another board member about weight and resale value of his used aircraft. What am I supposed to gleam from that. 
All said .... My problem is the board has over stepped its self and is not representative of its members in there entirety . It has an aroma of self interest  and personal agenda wether true or just perceived .

Until the board pulls their proclamation of support or shows me that the membership in a clear and definitive (60%) majority supports these rules changes I will not support the board an will continue call the board to task over their actions. I intend no  malice to anyone but I damn sure am not a happy camper over these issues.. 

Again what say the board.

Gary Courtney

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:28 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:

> Gary,
> 
> There was a weight proposal two years ago which resulted in a 115 gram allowance for  Intermediate and Advanced. There was already a weight proposal submitted this year by Joe with an increase of 200 grams for all AMA classes.  Discussions surrounding the weight rule have been going on for years and to claim that the NSRCA proposal was made in response to Arch's weight checking plan for this year's Nats is preposterous.
> 
> John
> 
> On 3/16/2012 8:30 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy wrote:
>> 
>> The cd's have been enforcing the weight rule at the NATS for years this year will be no different just more frequent given the logistics hold up ..don't see how it makes a difference.. Sounds like an inference that we now have a weight change proposition due to an in forcemeat of the rules .. Sounds to me like I might not want to be apart of an organization that is run by such thinking..
>> 
>> 
>> Gary  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:19 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Arch,
>>> I certainly was not objecting to you enforcing the weight rule at the Nats. I'm with  you 100% on that and any other rule enforcement at the Nats you can afford to do. You have to admit that your decision to weigh every plane created a lot of "discussion" on this list.
>>> Can't see anyone going to the Nats knowing they are going to get just a tearsheet and a bunch of zeros for their efforts. Again, this is not to imply you should be doing anything different, just that we should change the rule to encourage participation in the future.
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On 3/16/2012 7:55 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing rule. Actually, I didn't have to say a thing except for how it was going to be enforced. Frankly, if I had the number of people available to strictly enforce every rule, I would.   If nothing else my decision has at least sparked the debate about the rule. It has never made sense to me to never enforce it. Personally I think it needs to be left alone, but others don't. Even this year, no one is saying you can't fly a heavy airplane. You just wont get to keep the scores for that round. I seriously doubt someone with a real shot at winning would show up with a heavy airplane anyway. People can even have their tear sheets for the round. It just wont be listed in the results. 
>>>> 
>>>> Arch
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Point taken about having to serve notice that you are going to enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that Arch had to do that for the Nats this year and such a clatter did arise....
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John, one issue about waive a rule notification in really bothers me in your suggestion. Having to post in advance 30 days that a CD will enforce a rule is counter to any other process I’ve seen.
>>>>>> It becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only system that really works. LOL
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 PM
>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the Nats if they start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to increase attendance and is detrimental to operation of local contests. All it takes is an unhappy pilot feeling he was home-towned protesting vociferously about the heavy airplane that just beat him and demanding a weight check that might reverse the first and second places. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot. If you do a weight check and it fails, then you've lost a different pilot. To prevent this, a CD must waive the weight rules on his sanction which is not normally done now, although it should be. So extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work for scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that will not be enforced locally and will keep pilots away from the Nats just as much as no weight allowance at all. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> At the very least, preface the rule proposal with something like:
>>>>>> This weight rule will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD  chooses to include this rule at a local contest, he must publicize that fact appropriately to all potential attendees at least 30 days prior to the contest. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> At a local contest, this officially leaves us with no weight rule at all in AMA classes. That's probably OK as we could reject on size if needed. Personally I would only turn someone away if they brought a 42% Extra to fly in Masters and maybe not even then...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/15/2012 7:54 AM, ronlock at comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Here is a copy of another proposal for consideration by the Contest Board along with the others that have been submitted.
>>>>>> This one does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight limits.  It imposes a score penalty, but still allows the
>>>>>> model to participate.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Ron Lockhart
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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