[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals

John Gayer jgghome at comcast.net
Fri Mar 16 20:15:53 AKDT 2012


Dave, any flights at a legal weight will be scored.

On 3/16/2012 9:20 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
>
> Ok I understand. In effect  the overweight planes will be DQ after 
> flight rather than before with no opportunity to make weight for the 
> flight. I assume any rounds he flies with a legal weight will be 
> scored either before or after the DQ? Correct?
>
> *From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Archie Stafford
> *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 11:13 PM
> *To:* General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals
>
> Dave,
>
> The planes will not be weighted until the completion of a flight so we 
> would have no way to know the weight until after the round.
>
> This is not pro-testable as it has been published well in advance. 
> Next year the ED can do it anyway he chooses.
>
> Arch
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2012, at 10:08 PM, "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net 
> <mailto:burtona at atmc.net>> wrote:
>
>     Arch,
>
>     How about the impact on other pilots, and especially those
>     judging,  and other workers having to work for someone who's
>     results won't count.  I think I'd probably resent being asked to
>     spend my time at the Nats judging a pilot when his flights won't
>     be included in the results.
>
>     How is this process supported in the rules? Would not ignoring of
>     the rules be subject to a protest too?
>
>     I really doubt you'll have anyone show up and fly under these
>     circumstances but if you do and you allow them to fly you are
>     letting them take up the time that could better be used on" legal"
>     contestants.
>
>     Dave
>
>     *From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>     [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of
>     *Archie Stafford
>     *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 9:55 PM
>     *To:* General pattern discussion
>     *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals
>
>     Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing rule. Actually, I
>     didn't have to say a thing except for how it was going to be
>     enforced. Frankly, if I had the number of people available to
>     strictly enforce every rule, I would.   If nothing else my
>     decision has at least sparked the debate about the rule. It has
>     never made sense to me to never enforce it. Personally I think it
>     needs to be left alone, but others don't. Even this year, no one
>     is saying you can't fly a heavy airplane. You just wont get to
>     keep the scores for that round. I seriously doubt someone with a
>     real shot at winning would show up with a heavy airplane anyway.
>     People can even have their tear sheets for the round. It just wont
>     be listed in the results.
>
>     Arch
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net
>     <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>         Point taken about having to serve notice that you are going to
>         enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that Arch had to do
>         that for the Nats this year and such a clatter did arise....
>
>
>         On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
>
>         John, one issue about waive a rule notification in really
>         bothers me in your suggestion. Having to post in advance 30
>         days that a CD will enforce a rule is counter to any other
>         process I've seen.
>
>         It becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only
>         system that really works. LOL
>
>         *From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>         [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf
>         Of *John Gayer
>         *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 PM
>         *To:* General pattern discussion
>         *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals
>
>         This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the
>         Nats if they start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to
>         increase attendance and is detrimental to operation of local
>         contests. All it takes is an unhappy pilot feeling he was
>         home-towned protesting vociferously about the heavy airplane
>         that just beat him and demanding a weight check that might
>         reverse the first and second places.
>
>         IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot. If you do a
>         weight check and it fails, then you've lost a different pilot.
>         To prevent this, a CD must waive the weight rules on his
>         sanction which is not normally done now, although it should
>         be. So extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work for
>         scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that
>         will not be enforced locally and will keep pilots away from
>         the Nats just as much as no weight allowance at all.
>
>         At the very least, preface the rule proposal with something like:
>         This weight rule will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD 
>         chooses to include this rule at a local contest, he must
>         publicize that fact appropriately to all potential attendees
>         at least 30 days prior to the contest.
>
>         At a local contest, this officially leaves us with no weight
>         rule at all in AMA classes. That's probably OK as we could
>         reject on size if needed. Personally I would only turn someone
>         away if they brought a 42% Extra to fly in Masters and maybe
>         not even then...
>
>         Cheers
>         John
>
>
>         On 3/15/2012 7:54 AM, ronlock at comcast.net
>         <mailto:ronlock at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>         Hi All,
>
>         Here is a copy of another proposal for consideration by the
>         Contest Board along with the others that have been submitted.
>
>         This one does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight
>         limits.  It imposes a score penalty, but still allows the
>
>         model to participate.
>
>         Ron Lockhart
>
>
>
>
>
>
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