[NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Tue Sep 13 11:54:05 AKDT 2011

Mike, the laminate layer will not protect the 5-min from heat -- only 
sunlight/UV and chemicals -- maybe.  OTOH, you have the testimony of 
several who have used the 5-min with no problems.  Why not use 15-min if 
you have a question about the 5-min variety???

On 9/13/2011 1:23 PM, Michael S. Harrison wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> This is the critidcal info I needed.  100 ' deformation is a real 
> concern since batteries,etc go to well over 100', sometimes in the 
> order of 140'.  Even sitting in the sun will go to 120 or more.  I 
> believe the double layer, 5min/laminating will work.  It will be 
> stronger and redundant.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *rcmaster199 at aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:26 AM
> *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
> Mike,
>
> Deformation temp of 5 minute is usually very low, on order of 100F. I 
> no longer use 5 minute for anything load bearing.
>
> You are correct on sunlight degradation for the amine cured epoxies 
> (most of the stuff we use) but the process is fairly slow. Usually 
> don't have to worry about that as RVP pointed out, unless you are like 
> me and keep your planes for 8-10 years plus
>
> For much better sunlight protection there are other curing systems (J 
> Greer) available but these are slow curing and could be 
> counteproductive for your purposes
>
> MattK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael S. Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:52 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
> Thanks Ted and others.  This is all helpful, my concern is what I have 
> witnessed over many years as the heat and fuel ruined the 5 min 
> epoxy.  Since it is electric, fuel is not an issue but there is plenty 
> of concern about heat.  I don't know the deformation temp of the epoxy 
> nor the exposure to normal environment so that is why I was asking.  I 
> am going with the 5 min and doing a thin coating of laminating to have 
> a seal and redundancy.  Sunlight will eventually ruin the epoxies but 
> since it is inside the fuse, that is not an issue.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
> [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] *On Behalf Of *Ted 
> Sander
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:54 AM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
> I tend to use whatever the local shop carries -- but do lean toward 
> Z-poxy.  The current Pres. Of our local club spent his career 
> formulating adhesives, so I trust his opinions, and in his view all 
> hobby marketed expoxies are far stronger and longer lasting than we 
> ever need, so go with price.  That said, longer curing is stronger 
> than shorter curing (but once you are good enough, do you really need 
> it stronger?) and using laminating is better than thinning with 
> alcohol, acetone, or whatever if you need to coat an 
> area.....(thinning does dramatically reduce strength).
>
> If you are getting into whole plane fabrication with epoxies 
> (glass/composite construction, etc.) then you need to do some more 
> research for thin film strengths, viscosity, etc. , especially since 
> weight becomes a big factor.  But for general gluing of firewalls, 
> wing halves, or the like -- go with what you can easily get/afford.
>
> *From:* _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
> [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] *On Behalf Of 
> *Michael S. Harrison
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 2:31 PM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted what was the brand you used?
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> 
> [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] *On Behalf Of *Ted 
> Sander
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 1:51 PM
> *To:* General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
> You'd just be adding weight.  I have 20 yr old planes where the 5 min 
> is still perfect.  Enough heat to be a problem with the epoxy will be 
> a much bigger problem for everything else in the plane!
>
> Ted Sander
>
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:57 AM, "Michael S. Harrison" 
> <_drmikedds at sbcglobal.net_ <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks Dwane,
>
>     Sorry, I was very ambiguous in my search for answers.  I am
>     referring to the cured state.  I am using it for construction and
>     I have decided to coat the cured 5 min epoxy with a high quality
>     laminating epoxy to seal/insulate it from solvents, air, etc so
>     that it is preserved-don't know that it will work but gonna do it
>     that way.
>
>     Mike
>
>     *From:* _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>     [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] *On Behalf Of
>     *Dwayne Brown
>     *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 11:28 AM
>     *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
>     *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
>     Keep it in the freezer until needed and it will outlive all of us
>     on the NSRCA group.  Dwayne
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>     [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] *On Behalf Of
>     *Michael S. Harrison
>     *Sent:* Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:59 PM
>     *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
>     *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy
>
>     Tech question.
>
>     What is the lifespan quality of 5 min epoxy.  How long does it
>     last?  I am using in an electric for construction and I am
>     concerned about degradation over time.  How does the heat affect
>     it?  I am building to ca models fuse.  What is your choice of
>     adhesive in this case?
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Mike Harrison
>
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-- 
Phil Spelt, KCRC President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c

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