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Mike, the laminate layer will not protect the 5-min from heat -- only
sunlight/UV and chemicals -- maybe. OTOH, you have the testimony of
several who have used the 5-min with no problems. Why not use 15-min
if you have a question about the 5-min variety???<br>
<br>
On 9/13/2011 1:23 PM, Michael S. Harrison wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Matt,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This
is the critidcal info I needed. 100 ‘ deformation is a real concern
since batteries,etc go to well over 100’, sometimes in the order of
140’. Even sitting in the sun will go to 120 or more. I believe the
double layer, 5min/laminating will work. It will be stronger and
redundant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mike
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Deformation
temp of 5 minute is usually very low, on order of 100F. I no longer use
5 minute for anything load bearing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">You
are correct on sunlight degradation for the amine cured epoxies (most
of the stuff we use) but the process is fairly slow. Usually don't have
to worry about that as RVP pointed out, unless you are like me and keep
your planes for 8-10 years plus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">For
much better sunlight protection there are other curing systems (J
Greer) available but these are slow curing and could be
counteproductive for your purposes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">MattK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Michael S. Harrison <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net"><drmikedds@sbcglobal.net></a><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_5e8d052c-ac60-433a-92bb-0851852e2a4c">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Thanks
Ted and others. This is all helpful, my concern is what I have
witnessed over many years as the heat and fuel ruined the 5 min epoxy.
Since it is electric, fuel is not an issue but there is plenty of
concern about heat. I don’t know the deformation temp of the epoxy nor
the exposure to normal environment so that is why I was asking. I am
going with the 5 min and doing a thin coating of laminating to have a
seal and redundancy. Sunlight will eventually ruin the epoxies but
since it is inside the fuse, that is not an issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Mike
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><u><span
style="color: blue;">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Sander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">I
tend to use whatever the local shop carries – but do lean toward
Z-poxy. The current Pres. Of our local club spent his career
formulating adhesives, so I trust his opinions, and in his view all
hobby marketed expoxies are far stronger and longer lasting than we
ever need, so go with price. That said, longer curing is stronger than
shorter curing (but once you are good enough, do you really need it
stronger?) and using laminating is better than thinning with alcohol,
acetone, or whatever if you need to coat an area…..(thinning does
dramatically reduce strength).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">If
you are getting into whole plane fabrication with epoxies
(glass/composite construction, etc.) then you need to do some more
research for thin film strengths, viscosity, etc. , especially since
weight becomes a big factor. But for general gluing of firewalls, wing
halves, or the like – go with what you can easily get/afford.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><u><span
style="color: blue;">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 2:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Ted
what was the brand you used?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Mike
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><u><span
style="color: blue;">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Sander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">You'd
just be adding weight. I have 20 yr old planes where the 5 min is
still perfect. Enough heat to be a problem with the epoxy will be a
much bigger problem for everything else in the plane!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Ted
Sander<br>
<br>
On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:57 AM, "Michael S. Harrison" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net"><u><span
style="color: blue;">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</span></u></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks
Dwane,</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sorry,
I was very ambiguous in my search for answers. I am referring to the
cured state. I am using it for construction and I have decided to coat
the cured 5 min epoxy with a high quality laminating epoxy to
seal/insulate it from solvents, air, etc so that it is preserved-don’t
know that it will work but gonna do it that way.</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mike
</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><u><span
style="color: blue;">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dwayne Brown<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 11:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Keep
it in the freezer until needed and it will outlive all of us on the
NSRCA group. Dwayne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><u><span
style="color: blue;">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Tech
question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">What
is the lifespan quality of 5 min epoxy. How long does it last? I am
using in an electric for construction and I am concerned about
degradation over time. How does the heat affect it? I am building to
ca models fuse. What is your choice of adhesive in this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Mike
Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a><br>
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style="color: black;">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
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style="color: black;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><u><span
style="color: blue;">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
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_______________________________________________
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Phil Spelt, KCRC President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c</pre>
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