[NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Mon May 30 21:02:32 AKDT 2011

John,

And how would you propose that we choose this junior member so that it is
fair and equitable to all junior F3A pilots that fly in the US?   I totally
disagree with just choosing someone so that they can experience the WCs.
this is a major event which should be treated as such and the people that
fly in it are chosen to represent their countries at the highest level of
competition, and I'm sure that every person that has entered knows that they
are one of the top pilots representing their country.  If I had any choice
in making a junior selection based on an unknown without this person
demonstrating that they deserve to be at the WC, I would not feel
comfortable doing so - missed opportunity or not.

We'll have plenty of opportunity going forward to ensure that this junior
pilot is selected properly and will be the best junior pilot that competed
for that opportunity.

-Derek

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:51 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Derek,

This was a one-off opportunity that we missed. The teams that do have junior
entries this year  have multiple classes as stepping stones, just as we do.
We should have, as the host country, have extended the opportunity to one of
our younger fliers. It would have been a cherished memory for someone
regardless of whether this WC provided the incentive to become a full team
member down the road or was instead the pinnacle of a short pattern career
ending, as so many do, in college, careers and family.

John

On 5/30/2011 7:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: 

All registrations for entry to the WCs had to be in by April 30th. so yes,
it is too late to submit an entry.  I also feel that since we never had
anyone qualify then we shouldn't choose a junior just for the sake of doing
so - there is a defined process (for regular team members) and I think we
should follow it.  Unlike some countries, we fly several classes as stepping
stones to F3A - several countries only fly F3A, so it is easier for them to
choose someone.

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:41 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Arch,
I completely agree that we need a process for future years. Apparently there
will be a formal junior competition in two years and we need to be ready to
field a team for 2013. Whether or not the incentive of having a World Junior
competition is good for junior development is something we can discuss down
the road. Clearly it will be an expensive proposition when competing
overseas.
This year I believe we need to offer the opportunity to a qualified under 18
to compete in the Worlds this year which is right around the corner. I don't
know and haven't heard whether this is even possible at this late
date(Derek?).
You mention several young pilots although it does not appear that they are
currently flying F3A.
Do they feel qualified and/or want to participate? 
Perhaps we should solicit applications in the next week for qualified
applicants who want to compete at the WC. Might only be a couple to choose
from. At best we need a candidate very soon. Otherwise, it's already too
late.
John

On 5/30/2011 8:18 AM, Archie Stafford wrote: 

I disagree.  I think it does need to be formal.  Joseph Szczur competed a
couple of years ago in FAI and was a Jr, but is now flying Advanced and has
a good shot at winning this year.  Riley Kissenberth has won the NATS in
Intermediate and Advanced back to back years.  Brandon made the finals in
Masters 2 years ago.  They are all great pilots and there are others out
there, so its not fair to just pick one.  You need to have a basis on making
that decision.  I think long term we are better served, making it announced
at future team selection years, which could open up another can of worms.
You would then have kids flying Intermediate fly FAI that year, just for a
shot at the team, then back down, which is fine, except I think you are not
really helping their development.  I think the process needs to be developed
and put in place, not just send someone to say we sent someone.

Arch

On 5/30/11 9:29 AM, "Vicente "Vince" Bortone"
<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net> <vicenterc at comcast.net> wrote:

I agree 100 %.  It is a great opportunity.  The selection process does not
need to be that formal.  You never know,  this could be a "chick" that will
allow us to discover the next champion.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer &lt;jgghome at comcast.net&gt;
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Mon, 30 May 2011 13:18:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team
Derek,
Since noone qualified through the NAts last year, could we extend an
invitation to an under-18 who is currently flying F3A? Perhaps by making
a selection through how many competitors the candidate has beat in
contests this year? There can't be that many to choose from.
I suggest that the opportunity to compete in a world championship
against the best in the world would be a very memorable experience for
one of our kids regardless of trophies, etc. Whenever there has been an
opportunity to field a fourth entry as World Champion, we have done so,
even to the possible detriment of our team standing at the WC. I suggest
this would be in the same spirit without any downside impact to the team.
John
On 5/30/2011 12:01 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:

The Junior category for F3A is only effective starting in 2012. A
decision to include junior's was made by the CIAM F3A Sub-Committee
chair in November last year and got the approval of the CIAM committee
in early December at the CIAM meeting (which I did not attend). The
first I heard about this was the middle of January when we were
getting ready to publish the first bulletin for the WCs. This WC will
not offer a "Junior" World Champion -- there will only be a "highest
placing Junior" if there are more than 3 Junior's competing.

One other point to consider... there were NO junior's participating at
the Nats in F3A last year (2010). The only person that was listed to
participate was Brandon Landry and he never competed last year. It
would be a little hard to choose a junior when we didn't have any
competing...

*From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *John
Gayer
*Sent:* Sunday, May 29, 2011 7:10 PM
*To:* General pattern discussion
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

That would be our CIAM representative, Derek Koopowitz. However, I
have no idea if he was the representative when the current rules for
2011 came up for a vote.
After that, Al Glenn as team manager should be familiar with the rules.
And of course anyone now flying F3A should also have read the rules.

Still I can see how this might be overlooked. After all, there appear
to be only two countries who did not overlook it. However the question
now should be: can we still propose a junior at this late date and do
we have one that is ready to step in? Were there any juniors or
seniors that flew F3A in last year's Nats??

On 5/29/2011 7:44 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:

I keep wondering who in the U.S. should have been "minding the store"
on this subject. If other countries picked up on adding a junior
member on their team, why didn't we?

Ron

On May 29, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Bob Richards wrote:

Then I guess the only alternative is to send no junior? Seems to me
that if we get a quick consensus to use the Nats results, it should
all be good.

JMHO,

Bob R.

--- On *Fri, 5/27/11, Joe Lachowski /<jlachow at hotmail.com
 <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com> <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>/* wrote:

From: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com  <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>
<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team
To: "NSRCA Discussion List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
 <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 10:38 PM

I believe none particitated in the team selection process?

Picking someone based on anything else would open a can of worms.

Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:11:51 -0600
From: jgghome at comcast.net  <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
<mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

 <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Looking at the AMA site for the Worlds, I notice that several

teams have

added a fourth junior member to their teams as per the new rules.
It is rather disappointing to me at least that we, as the host

nation,

have not given any of our juniors(under 18) a chance to compete

at the

world level against other international juniors.

John Gayer

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

 <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.or
g>
<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.or
g>>

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org  <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org  <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20110531/b6a6dd3e/attachment.html>