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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And how would you propose that we choose this junior member so that it is fair and equitable to all junior F3A pilots that fly in the US? I totally disagree with just choosing someone so that they can experience the WCs… this is a major event which should be treated as such and the people that fly in it are chosen to represent their countries at the highest level of competition, and I’m sure that every person that has entered knows that they are one of the top pilots representing their country. If I had any choice in making a junior selection based on an unknown without this person demonstrating that they deserve to be at the WC, I would not feel comfortable doing so – missed opportunity or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We’ll have plenty of opportunity going forward to ensure that this junior pilot is selected properly and will be the best junior pilot that competed for that opportunity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Derek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Derek,<br><br>This was a one-off opportunity that we missed. The teams that do have junior entries this year have multiple classes as stepping stones, just as we do.<br>We should have, as the host country, have extended the opportunity to one of our younger fliers. It would have been a cherished memory for someone regardless of whether this WC provided the incentive to become a full team member down the road or was instead the pinnacle of a short pattern career ending, as so many do, in college, careers and family.<br><br>John<br><br>On 5/30/2011 7:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>All registrations for entry to the WCs had to be in by April 30<sup>th</sup>… so yes, it is too late to submit an entry. I also feel that since we never had anyone qualify then we shouldn’t choose a junior just for the sake of doing so – there is a defined process (for regular team members) and I think we should follow it. Unlike some countries, we fly several classes as stepping stones to F3A – several countries only fly F3A, so it is easier for them to choose someone.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 30, 2011 7:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Arch,<br>I completely agree that we need a process for future years. Apparently there will be a formal junior competition in two years and we need to be ready to field a team for 2013. Whether or not the incentive of having a World Junior competition is good for junior development is something we can discuss down the road. Clearly it will be an expensive proposition when competing overseas.<br>This year I believe we need to offer the opportunity to a qualified under 18 to compete in the Worlds <i>this</i> year which is right around the corner. I don't know and haven't heard whether this is even possible at this late date(Derek?).<br>You mention several young pilots although it does not appear that they are currently flying F3A.<br>Do they feel qualified and/or want to participate? <br>Perhaps we should solicit applications in the next week for qualified applicants who want to compete at the WC. Might only be a couple to choose from. At best we need a candidate very soon. Otherwise, it's already too late.<br>John<br><br>On 5/30/2011 8:18 AM, Archie Stafford wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><pre>I disagree. I think it does need to be formal. Joseph Szczur competed a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>couple of years ago in FAI and was a Jr, but is now flying Advanced and has<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a good shot at winning this year. Riley Kissenberth has won the NATS in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Intermediate and Advanced back to back years. Brandon made the finals in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Masters 2 years ago. They are all great pilots and there are others out<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>there, so its not fair to just pick one. You need to have a basis on making<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that decision. I think long term we are better served, making it announced<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>at future team selection years, which could open up another can of worms.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You would then have kids flying Intermediate fly FAI that year, just for a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>shot at the team, then back down, which is fine, except I think you are not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>really helping their development. I think the process needs to be developed<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and put in place, not just send someone to say we sent someone.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Arch<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On 5/30/11 9:29 AM, "Vicente "Vince" Bortone" <a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net"><vicenterc@comcast.net></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>I agree 100 %. It is a great opportunity. The selection process does not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>need to be that formal. You never know, this could be a "chick" that will<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>allow us to discover the next champion.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: John Gayer &lt;jgghome@comcast.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Mon, 30 May 2011 13:18:02 -0000 (UTC)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Derek,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Since noone qualified through the NAts last year, could we extend an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>invitation to an under-18 who is currently flying F3A? Perhaps by making<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a selection through how many competitors the candidate has beat in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>contests this year? There can't be that many to choose from.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I suggest that the opportunity to compete in a world championship<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>against the best in the world would be a very memorable experience for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>one of our kids regardless of trophies, etc. Whenever there has been an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>opportunity to field a fourth entry as World Champion, we have done so,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>even to the possible detriment of our team standing at the WC. I suggest<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this would be in the same spirit without any downside impact to the team.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>John<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On 5/30/2011 12:01 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The Junior category for F3A is only effective starting in 2012. A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>decision to include junior's was made by the CIAM F3A Sub-Committee<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>chair in November last year and got the approval of the CIAM committee<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in early December at the CIAM meeting (which I did not attend). The<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>first I heard about this was the middle of January when we were<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>getting ready to publish the first bulletin for the WCs. This WC will<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>not offer a "Junior" World Champion -- there will only be a "highest<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>placing Junior" if there are more than 3 Junior's competing.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>One other point to consider... there were NO junior's participating at<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the Nats in F3A last year (2010). The only person that was listed to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>participate was Brandon Landry and he never competed last year. It<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>would be a little hard to choose a junior when we didn't have any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>competing...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *John<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gayer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*Sent:* Sunday, May 29, 2011 7:10 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*To:* General pattern discussion<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>That would be our CIAM representative, Derek Koopowitz. However, I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>have no idea if he was the representative when the current rules for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>2011 came up for a vote.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>After that, Al Glenn as team manager should be familiar with the rules.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>And of course anyone now flying F3A should also have read the rules.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Still I can see how this might be overlooked. After all, there appear<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to be only two countries who did not overlook it. However the question<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>now should be: can we still propose a junior at this late date and do<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>we have one that is ready to step in? Were there any juniors or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>seniors that flew F3A in last year's Nats??<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On 5/29/2011 7:44 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I keep wondering who in the U.S. should have been "minding the store"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>on this subject. If other countries picked up on adding a junior<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>member on their team, why didn't we?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ron<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On May 29, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Bob Richards wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Then I guess the only alternative is to send no junior? Seems to me<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that if we get a quick consensus to use the Nats results, it should<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>all be good.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>JMHO,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bob R.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>--- On *Fri, 5/27/11, Joe Lachowski /<<a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com"><mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com></a>>/* wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: Joe Lachowski <<a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</a> <a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com"><mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com></a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: "NSRCA Discussion List" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 10:38 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I believe none particitated in the team selection process?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Picking someone based on anything else would open a can of worms.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:11:51 -0600<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a> <a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"><mailto:jgghome@comcast.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Looking at the AMA site for the Worlds, I notice that several<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre>teams have<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>added a fourth junior member to their teams as per the new rules.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>It is rather disappointing to me at least that we, as the host<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre>nation,<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>have not given any of our juniors(under 18) a chance to compete<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre>at the<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>world level against other international juniors.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>John Gayer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing 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