[NSRCA-discussion] C'ARF Integral - Mixing secret?

[AtwoodDon at aol.com]

I flew my Integral 'stock' for the first 2 years, then last year, I added  
adjusters to follow thru with Bryan's trimming method.  In stock form, I  
had the CG at about 175mm, any further back, the plane was 'unsettled' for my  
taste, would drop a wing in corners or pitch unexpectly in turbulence.   
Also, in stock form, it had zero/zero wing/stab incidence.  With the  stock 
downthrust, I had to mix in rudder to elev (4-5%) for knife  edge , rudder to 
aileron (4%) since the plane is a little shy on dihedral,  left rudder at 
low throttle (2%) for downlines and down elev at low  throttle for downlines.
 
After going thru Bryan's trimming method, I eliminated the rudder to  elev 
mix for knife edge and some of the down elev at low throttle for  downlines. 
I added about .3 degrees positive incidence in the wing and I  reduced the 
downthrust by about 33%,  left rudder still required for  downlines, my last 
3 electric planes have required that mix (Brio, Genesis,  Integral).  Most 
of the Integrals here in NorCal are using that mix  also.   My CG is even 
more forward now, around 155-160mm with this  setup.  No differential in the 
ailerons.  Plane is very solid, spins  and snaps stop almost instantly.  Very 
solid elev response and rolls very  axially.
 
Warped wing,  2 of the 3 Integrals I have built came from the factory  with 
the right wing twisted about .5-.75 degrees.  My guess is they have  
multiple molds and one or more are twisted.  It seems about 50-50 whether  you get 
straight or twisted right wing. The good news is, with adjusters,  you can 
adjust the wings so the ailerons fly with no trim and stalls are  very 
predictable.  Would still prefer to have straight wings, but my  original wasn't 
and I am still flying it.
 
All in all, the Integral is the best plane I have ever owned.  I have  a 
white one in the shipping box in my workshop, next in project in line.
 
Don
 
 
In a message dated 7/6/2010 1:00:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jim.woodward at baesystems.com writes:

Thanks  Bryan,

This plane was so "mixed" up (pun intended) I'll offer this  advice to the 
owner and ask for a report back after this weekend.  Jim



-----Original Message-----
From: shinden1 at cox.net  [mailto:shinden1 at cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:50 PM
To:  General pattern discussion
Cc: Woodward, Jim R (US SSA)
Subject: Re:  [NSRCA-discussion] C'ARF Integral - Mixing secret?

Jim ,
The  airplane "Is" set up with the c/g too far back, that`s all there is to 
it.  
I`ve fixed way to many of these ,,for the same problem.
Add inc, to the  main wing, move the c/g forward to 25% mac .
All these mixes will disappear  up elevator with rudder, rudder low 
throttle , wing dips on hard pull outs ect  airplane requiring aileron differential 
ECT.
Trust me, I fix um all the  time.:)

You would be surprised to know how far back you can fly the cg  and it seem 
ok !

---- "Woodward wrote: 
> The other test was to  simply fly a straight line and cut the power - 
plane yawed off something  fierce.   Maybe the fuselage is warped.  Rudder 
cables were  snug.  Control surfaces were indexed close enough.  Wings and stabs 
 were nice and tight against the fuselage.  Positive loop tracking, and  
square loop tracking, with constant throttle position, was very good.   
Outside loop tracking needed a SLIGHT amount of rudder (certainly no  biggy).  It 
was the speed/throttle dependant.  Rudder trimmed for  uplines, looked very 
normal and straight down the line.
>  Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> From:  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org  
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of  CHV69 at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:04 PM
> To:  nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] C'ARF  Integral - Mixing secret?
> 
> In a message dated 7/6/2010 2:59:47  P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com writes:
>  I'm with Jason on this, I have had 3 of these and they havnt had but 2 
percent  for the downline. Not to say that something couldn't have changed
> In  manufacturing but all of my integrals are the same.
> Downline yes I add  about 2% down elevator at throttle back so it won't 
pull to the  canopy.
> 
> Mine also was off the first cargo container over  here. So I wouldn't 
doubt there were some bugs that needed fixing after the  first boat load.
> 
> Off my soapbox before the flames  start.
> 
>  Carl
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