[NSRCA-discussion] Question.

rcmaster199 at aol.com rcmaster199 at aol.com
Fri Aug 20 11:02:50 AKDT 2010


Why not?? Easiest to clip and it's already cold......3 below.?Can't avoid condensation. 




-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Cosky <pcosky at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 2:54 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question.




Don't go for the low hanging fruit..... 
 
Pete Cosky 
sent from my mobile device 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:50 PM 
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. 
 
Seriously?  You're going to set me up for a Depends joke? That's so easy it's  
insulting...lol 
 
Mark Atwood 
Paragon Consulting, Inc.??|??President 
5885?Landerbrook?Drive Suite 130,?Cleveland?Ohio,?44124? 
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102??|??Fax: 440.684.3102 
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com ?|??www.paragon-inc.com 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]  
On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:37 PM 
To: General pattern discussion 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. 
 
Yeah, but things might be wet if I feel a shock, no matter how dry   
the conditions. 
 
Ron 
 
On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: 
 
> From Underwriter Lab documents.. 
> 
> 
> 
> Testing in 1950s determined that a 
> 
> shock and let-go value of not greater than 42.4 volts was 
> 
> an acceptable level in most dry locations and would not 
> 
> be lethal to a person in contact with the circuit. This 
> 
> value of 42.4 volts peak would not be acceptable in a wet 
> 
> location since the resistance of a person's body would be 
> 
> much lower in a wet condition. 
> 
> 
> 
> It's extremely person to person dependent.  Our skin resistance   
> varies wildly and the difference between Dry skin and Wet skin is   
> something like 100,000 ohms to 1,000 ohms.  Sort of a wide range. 
> 
> 
> 
> But again, the "generally accepted" safe low voltage is 40V, or in   
> the case of UL Listing, 42.4. 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that played a big role in the FAI guideline   
> initially of not exceeding 42V. 
> 
> 
> 
> AC current is different, both more and less lethal.  More because   
> it fibrillates the heart, but less because you have a chance of   
> letting go.  Very situation dependent. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Atwood 
> 
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President 
> 
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
> 
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Fax: 440.684.3102 
> 
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com 
> 
> 
> 
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-  
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards 
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:01 PM 
> To: General pattern discussion 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>The voltage in a battery is not the lethal element, current of   
> Amperage is.<<< 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you saying that a 1 cell 5000mah pack is dangerous enough to   
> kill 1000 people? :-) 
> 
> 
> 
> A 12v car battery can put out hundreds of amps. It does not kill   
> anyone from electrocution since the human body is a terrible   
> conductor (high resistance) and 12v is not enough voltage to cause   
> a significant current to flow through human tissue. So, it takes a   
> high enough voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body   
> before enough current flows to cause problems. 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, a Tesla coil can produce over a 100k volts, but   
> a person can touch it because there is so little current produced -   
> not enough to hurt someone. 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a source with a high enough potential (voltage) to   
> overcome the human resistance, along with enough current capacity,   
> before harm can be done. 
> 
> 
> 
> The exact values that can be considered dangerous can be debated.   
> 50ma will not always be dangerous - it won't feel good, however.   
> OTOH, less than 20ma under the right circumstances can be lethal. 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob R. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Randall Bearden <rbearden56 at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> The voltage in a battery is not the lethal element, current of   
> Amperage is.  I believe the voltage is to limit the number of cells   
> that can be used for the power source.  Each will have 3.6 volts so   
> you can see that 11  cells in series can will have  39.6 volts.    
> The number of cells in parallel will add up to the current you need   
> for the engine to produce power.  Letha current is about 50 mA or   
> 0.05 Amps of current. 
> 
> On 8/19/10 3:22 PM, "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote: 
> 
> I can't answer the "checking" question, as I have never had mine   
> checked, but I "think" I was told they did at the worlds.  As to   
> why the limit on voltage, that's simply a safety issue.   40V dc is   
> generally accepted as the threshold for non-lethal dc voltage.    
> Your skins natural resistance will prevent enough current from   
> going through you at that voltage to kill you (though as many have   
> experienced, it can burn the crap out of your fingers).   That   
> said, if you had electrodes poked through the skin, it could still   
> toast you. 
> 
> There has been talk about raising that limit to accommodate 12s   
> batteries which FAI has done for the Heli F3C competitions.  I   
> doubt you'll see it go above that.   I'm actually surprised that   
> the AMA hasn't put an upper limit (or maybe they have and I'm   
> unaware) for the same safety reason. 
> 
> I can only imagine what a good old fashioned electrocution would do   
> for our image.   Big bird fun fry. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Atwood 
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President 
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Fax: 440.684.3102 
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>     
> |  www.paragon-inc.com <http://www.paragon-inc.com/> 
> 
> 
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-  
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor 
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:13 PM 
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. 
> 
> 
>    4. Model Aircraft Requirements: 
>   4.1: Propulsion source limitations: Electrically-powered model   
> aircraft are limited to a maximum of 42.56 volts for the propulsion   
> circuit, measured prior to flight while the competitor is in the   
> ready box. 
> 
>   I see Electrics have a "Displacement" limit, why are they limited   
> and the IC engines not? 
> 
>   I also see they must be checked in the ready box prior to each   
> flight, anyone ever have this check done? Even at the worlds? 
> 
>   Or is this another ignored rule? 
> 
>   Tim 
> 
> 
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