<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT face=arial color=black></FONT><SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>Why not?? Easiest to clip and it's already cold......3 below. Can't avoid condensation. </div>
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-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Pete Cosky <pcosky@comcast.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 2:54 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question.<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
<PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>Don't go for the low hanging fruit..... <br>
<br>
Pete Cosky <br>
sent from my mobile device <br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Atwood, Mark <<A href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A>> <br>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:50 PM <br>
To: General pattern discussion <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>> <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. <br>
<br>
Seriously? You're going to set me up for a Depends joke? That's so easy it's <br>
insulting...lol <br>
<br>
Mark Atwood <br>
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President <br>
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 <br>
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102 <br>
<A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A> | <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A> <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <br>
On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte <br>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:37 PM <br>
To: General pattern discussion <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. <br>
<br>
Yeah, but things might be wet if I feel a shock, no matter how dry <br>
the conditions. <br>
<br>
Ron <br>
<br>
On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: <br>
<br>
> From Underwriter Lab documents.. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Testing in 1950s determined that a <br>
> <br>
> shock and let-go value of not greater than 42.4 volts was <br>
> <br>
> an acceptable level in most dry locations and would not <br>
> <br>
> be lethal to a person in contact with the circuit. This <br>
> <br>
> value of 42.4 volts peak would not be acceptable in a wet <br>
> <br>
> location since the resistance of a person's body would be <br>
> <br>
> much lower in a wet condition. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> It's extremely person to person dependent. Our skin resistance <br>
> varies wildly and the difference between Dry skin and Wet skin is <br>
> something like 100,000 ohms to 1,000 ohms. Sort of a wide range. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> But again, the "generally accepted" safe low voltage is 40V, or in <br>
> the case of UL Listing, 42.4. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I have to believe that played a big role in the FAI guideline <br>
> initially of not exceeding 42V. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> AC current is different, both more and less lethal. More because <br>
> it fibrillates the heart, but less because you have a chance of <br>
> letting go. Very situation dependent. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Mark Atwood <br>
> <br>
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President <br>
> <br>
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 <br>
> <br>
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102 <br>
> <br>
> <A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A> | <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</A> <br>
> <A href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Bob Richards <br>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:01 PM <br>
> To: General pattern discussion <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> >>>The voltage in a battery is not the lethal element, current of <br>
> Amperage is.<<< <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> So are you saying that a 1 cell 5000mah pack is dangerous enough to <br>
> kill 1000 people? :-) <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> A 12v car battery can put out hundreds of amps. It does not kill <br>
> anyone from electrocution since the human body is a terrible <br>
> conductor (high resistance) and 12v is not enough voltage to cause <br>
> a significant current to flow through human tissue. So, it takes a <br>
> high enough voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body <br>
> before enough current flows to cause problems. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On the other hand, a Tesla coil can produce over a 100k volts, but <br>
> a person can touch it because there is so little current produced - <br>
> not enough to hurt someone. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> It takes a source with a high enough potential (voltage) to <br>
> overcome the human resistance, along with enough current capacity, <br>
> before harm can be done. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The exact values that can be considered dangerous can be debated. <br>
> 50ma will not always be dangerous - it won't feel good, however. <br>
> OTOH, less than 20ma under the right circumstances can be lethal. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Bob R. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Randall Bearden <<A href="mailto:rbearden56@bellsouth.net">rbearden56@bellsouth.net</A>> wrote: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The voltage in a battery is not the lethal element, current of <br>
> Amperage is. I believe the voltage is to limit the number of cells <br>
> that can be used for the power source. Each will have 3.6 volts so <br>
> you can see that 11 cells in series can will have 39.6 volts. <br>
> The number of cells in parallel will add up to the current you need <br>
> for the engine to produce power. Letha current is about 50 mA or <br>
> 0.05 Amps of current. <br>
> <br>
> On 8/19/10 3:22 PM, "Atwood, Mark" <<A href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A>> wrote: <br>
> <br>
> I can't answer the "checking" question, as I have never had mine <br>
> checked, but I "think" I was told they did at the worlds. As to <br>
> why the limit on voltage, that's simply a safety issue. 40V dc is <br>
> generally accepted as the threshold for non-lethal dc voltage. <br>
> Your skins natural resistance will prevent enough current from <br>
> going through you at that voltage to kill you (though as many have <br>
> experienced, it can burn the crap out of your fingers). That <br>
> said, if you had electrodes poked through the skin, it could still <br>
> toast you. <br>
> <br>
> There has been talk about raising that limit to accommodate 12s <br>
> batteries which FAI has done for the Heli F3C competitions. I <br>
> doubt you'll see it go above that. I'm actually surprised that <br>
> the AMA hasn't put an upper limit (or maybe they have and I'm <br>
> unaware) for the same safety reason. <br>
> <br>
> I can only imagine what a good old fashioned electrocution would do <br>
> for our image. Big bird fun fry. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Mark Atwood <br>
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President <br>
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 <br>
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102 <br>
> <A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A> <<A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com?">mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>> <br>
> | <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A> <<A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</A> <br>
> <A href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor <br>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:13 PM <br>
> To: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <br>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> 4. Model Aircraft Requirements: <br>
> 4.1: Propulsion source limitations: Electrically-powered model <br>
> aircraft are limited to a maximum of 42.56 volts for the propulsion <br>
> circuit, measured prior to flight while the competitor is in the <br>
> ready box. <br>
> <br>
> I see Electrics have a "Displacement" limit, why are they limited <br>
> and the IC engines not? <br>
> <br>
> I also see they must be checked in the ready box prior to each <br>
> flight, anyone ever have this check done? Even at the worlds? <br>
> <br>
> Or is this another ignored rule? <br>
> <br>
> Tim <br>
> <br>
> <br>
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