[NSRCA-discussion] Full scale bipe vs RC plane

Fri Aug 20 07:13:29 AKDT 2010

   While that is true, there is also a caveat (in the AIM, I believe) that
you can't use the Right-Of-Way rules to gain an advantage over another
aircraft.  Both parties need to have a reasonable chance to "See and Avoid"
the other for the rules to work.  This guy at Mac's field never gave us the
chance to see him first, he came in literally at tree-top level and buzzed
the runway at 20 feet with no warning.

   That is why the FAA designates certain "entry points" to the VFR traffic
pattern relative to the runway and wind direction, as well as defined right
of way rules once you start the traffic pattern.  I don't do much VFR flying
anymore, but I can pretty well guarantee that none of those designated entry
points is located 10 feet above the trees at the end of the runway.

   Here's some light reading material:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/74c9017c9457e4ab862569d800780551/$FILE/AC90-66A.pdf

   As for the airshow collision, that was simply a lack of having anyone in
charge of the situation.  Luckily nobody was hurt and it appears that each
guy is going to pay for his own repairs, but of course it could have been
much, much worse - and all caught on video.  From what I saw of the video,
there was nobody in charge separating the aircraft (RC and Full Scale) by
either time or geography. . .

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:35 AM, <ldiamond at diamondrc.com> wrote:

> As bad as this is, you always wonder how this will test the AMA Safety
> Rules that states "Full Scale Planes have a right of way..."
>
> Personally, IMHO the liability will rest with the Event Coordinator and
> Sanctioning Party. The outcome could have been much worse, and I believe
> more than just one person shoulders responsibilty for the outcome.
>
> RC Showboating and Full Scale Showboating in the same airspace is always a
> recipe for disaster...
>
> --- On *Fri, 8/20/10, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full scale bipe vs RC plane
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 9:19 AM
>
> It was Saturday.  I was judging John Fuqua, and all of a sudden this
> airplane is 20 feet off the deck.  Came out of nowhere. Had not circled the
> field first or done anything else to let us know he wanted to land.
> Endangered himself, and us too. It as clear there was an event going on, and
> it was announced beforehand.   Al Glenn had a little "chat" with him after
> he landed.
>
> There are idiots everywhere.  You never know when one will strike.
>
> Jon Lowe
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Hoard <khoard at gmail.com>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:08 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full scale bipe vs RC plane
>
> Same thing happened at Mac Hodges field a few years ago.  I believe it was
> Friday warm-ups, and this guy in a Bonanza came out of nowhere with a low
> pass down the runway.
>
> Unfortunately, if you're flying at an uncontrolled field and nobody is
> talking on the radio all you have is "see and avoid" . . .
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:04 AM, Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bob@toprudder.com>
> > wrote:
>
>   I watched the video last night, but now the video has been "removed by
> the user".  I wonder if everyone is trying to keep this quiet now. The video
> will probably end up being evidence in an investigation.
>
> Someone is at fault. Hard to tell who. From watching the video, and from
> the description below, I doubt the model flyer was at fault since it
> appeared that he had permission, and the runway was supposed to be shut down
> - I think he had every right to assume it was safe for him to fly. When told
> to fly away, he did.
>
> Very lucky that no one was hurt.
>
> As model pilots, what can we learn from this? Always have a spotter. Not
> someone standing there saying "wow, bring it down lower" but someone with
> their head on a swivel watching out for traffic.
>
> I was flying a model at a private grass strip years ago and had just taken
> off. A guy drove up, got into his Pitts biplane and took off - he knew I was
> there. I thought it would be no problem, I just turned around and flew away
> from the runway. But, after he took off, he made a big circle and buzzed the
> field. Luckily, I had someone telling me what he was doing. I had to fly my
> model almost down into the tree tops to get out of his way. If anything had
> happened, I would have felt like it would have been the other guy's fault,
> but I'm sure the media would have reported it in such a way that model
> airplanes would have gotten a bad rap, which is what will probably happen
> now.
>
> Bob R.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/18/10, Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wemodels@cox.net>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wemodels@cox.net>
> >
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full scale bipe vs RC plane
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
> >
> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 9:46 AM
>
> mike mueller wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3GHqMObjcM&feature=player_embedded#!
> >  I've seen this but I can't figure out why they were allowing RC planes
> to fly on an active runway. This seems like total kaos. Mike
> Here is what I know about it:
>
> The location was Brighton Van-Aire airport (CO12) north of Denver.
> This is an uncontrolled field. There are no requirements for radios or any
> communications.
> There are no ATC personnel or facilities involved in operations at this
> airport.
> It happened during a charity event being held at the privately owned
> airpark (people have hangars at their homes).
> The biplane pilot lives there. He reportedly landed and parked his plane in
> his hangar after the incident.
> The RC plane was flying a planned demo.
> The fellow with the radio was the "airboss" for the event.
> He has no official powers or authority.
> The biplane required no clearance or permission to land or make the low
> pass.
> A NOTAM was not filed for the event.
> The biplane was damaged. (not sure to what extent)
> Nobody was injured.
> Incident reports have been filed with the FAA and NTSB.
>
> This is gleaned from a number of sources, including several threads on RCU,
> Flying Giants, and the AMA forum.
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>
>
> --
>
> Keith Hoard
> Collierville, TN
> khoard at gmail.com<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=khoard@gmail.com>
>
>
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-- 

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com
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