[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference

[rcmaster199 at aol.com]

There is very light and simple solution to this problem that may be retro-fitted.?Credit goes to Wist Model. I am preparing a How To for the KFactor and one of these days I will complete it and send it in. It requires different design struts than the common fare one gets with these planes. 
?
I would love for any mfr to try the approach since the structure could be even lighter and stronger if done when the fuse is being molded
?
MattK




-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference

Valid concern. My experience is that the landing gear support system is the weakest part of electric-powered airplanes.?
?
Ron?
?
On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:34 PM, Ron Hansen wrote:?
?
> I'm concerned that these new electric only planes that are designed > to make?
> weight won't hold up to the normal wear and tear of an average > intermediate?
> or advanced pilot or flying off of a rough grass runway. Is this a > valid?
> concern? I think so but maybe I'm over reacting. That is why I'm > in favor?
> of eliminating the weight limit altogether. The proposal to > slightly raise?
> the weight limit won't allow someone to fly an electric Focus II for?
> example.?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N > Hiller?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:17 PM?
> To: General pattern discussion?
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>?
> I've been following this with interest. E-power is looking better > all the?
> time and I probably will make the change. I like to build prefer a > wood?
> airplane. About how much total weight is in a suitable E-power > system or?
> empty airframe ready for radio etc? Any numbers readily available > would be?
> helpful in understanding the distribution of weight.?
> Thanks?
> Jim Hiller?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Dave?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:02 AM?
> To: 'General pattern discussion'?
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>?
> And to recall.....that is the Spark with custom wings and stabs, > which saves?
> substantial weight? There are very few unmodified kits available > that are?
> RTF electric at 10.25. There are some airframe examples for which > glow /?
> electric are similar weight, but that is not the norm - not yet > anyway - my?
> opinion.?
>?
> My electric Bravo was 10 lbs even at the 2009 NATs (only 4 oz more > than the?
> Vivat I flew in 2005) and I would be scared of the structure if it > were any?
> lighter. Of course it could be lighter still IF I went from 5000 > to 4350?
> lipos (~6 oz) and ditched the dual RX batts and Vregs (~2 oz) and used?
> lighter ESC and wiring (~ 2 oz).?
>?
> Point being....even tho 10 lb electrics are possible, and becoming > more?
> common, it is still pretty easy to build electrics at 11+ lbs without?
> careful planning and attention to detail. I think it will become a?
> non-issue soon enough.....even in Europe and Asia electrics are > coming on?
> strong.....so the glow kits will become increasingly scarce.?
>?
> Regards,?
>?
> Dave?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Atwood, Mark?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06 AM?
> To: General pattern discussion?
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>?
> I would argue that you can't "disregard" the airframe given that an > all?
> electric airframe is much lighter.?
>?
> My answer to the question? There is almost no difference. I'm > flying a?
> full 2M plane that weighs 10lbs 4oz with light batteries, 10lbs, > 8oz with?
> very heavy batteries. My two Black Magics with glow weighed 10lbs > 6oz and?
> 10lbs 8oz RTF minus CDI (add approx 4oz for that).?
>?
> I believe we're just now seeing full electric designs that are > optimized for?
> weight and are coming in light. Prior to that, many of the > designs still?
> had unnecessary structure as a legacy from Glow. I'm pretty sure that?
> evolution is not complete yet either.?
>?
>?
>?
> Mark Atwood?
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President?
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124?
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102?
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com | www.paragon-inc.com?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron > Van Putte?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:58 AM?
> To: General pattern discussion?
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>?
> Tough question. Will you insist on using 30C lipos, when 20C lipos?
> are much lighter? Do you plan on using a particular motor? Motor?
> weights vary substantially. Some ESCs are a lot heavier than others.?
>?
> My guess would be that the weight difference between a complete?
> electric-power system and a complete glow-power system, disregarding?
> the airplane, would be 10-16 ounces.?
>?
> Ron?
>?
> On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Dr Mike wrote:?
>?
>> Ok so I am going to ask the question again... in your estimation?
>> what is the?
>> difference in weight between the complete electric power system and?
>> the?
>> complete glow system-disregarding the airplane??
>> Mike?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron?
>> Van Putte?
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:30 AM?
>> To: General pattern discussion?
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>>?
>> Dave WAS trying to show the difference between glow and electric.?
>>?
>> Generally, airplanes that started out as glow-powered are heavier?
>> than one for electric power, because of the vibration. The?
>> difference between the two packages gets complicated. For glow, you?
>> include spinner, prop, engine, motor mount, ignition system, fuel?
>> tubing (and fittings), fuel tank and anything else which is?
>> exclusively for glow. For electric, you include spinner, prop,?
>> motor, motor mount, ESC, wiring, lipo batteries and anything else?
>> which is exclusively for electric. When you add it up, the weight?
>> differences can be pretty dramatic. If you don't carefully select?
>> all the components, you can easily add an unneeded 4 ounces to an?
>> electric-powered airplane.?
>>?
>> Ron?
>>?
>> On Aug 17, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Dr Mike wrote:?
>>?
>>> Thanks Dave, I am referring only to the power packages,not the?
>>> planes. Those are what I am looking for, the difference between?
>>> glow and electric.?
>>>?
>>> Mike?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-?
>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave?
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:41 AM?
>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'?
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> 12 oz +/-4 oz.?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Exact number depends on a bunch of things -?
>>>?
>>> - on the electric side, which motor, motor mounting, ESC, lipo, RX?
>>> power system??
>>>?
>>> - was the plane originally built lighter for electric, or with more?
>>> beef for glow??
>>>?
>>> - CDI / non CDI, type of mount, and what type of ignition and RX?
>>> power??
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> I can tell you that a number of Prestige planes have been built?
>>> with various glow and electric power plants. For the most part,?
>>> the glow airframes are +4 oz to start with (the added beef for glow?
>>> vibration). Most of the glow setups ended up at 9.5 lbs, +/- 4?
>>> oz. Most of the electrics ended up at 10.25 lbs, +/- 4 oz.?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Regards,?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Dave?
>>>?
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-?
>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dr Mike?
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:33 AM?
>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'?
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Could someone tell me the difference in weight between say a YS 1.7?
>>> with muffler/tank,etc vs electric??
>>>?
>>> Thanks?
>>>?
>>> Mike?
>>>?
>>> _______________________________________________?
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list?
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion?
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