[NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
Phil Spelt
chuenkan at comcast.net
Fri Nov 6 14:54:30 AKST 2009
Bill,
Moki engines are designed and produced to run on
FAI fuel! That explains your results with
various nitro percentages -- but you probably already knew that...
At 12:50 PM 11/6/2009, you wrote:
>O.K. Troy, I'll be seeing Jerry (and, probably,
>Margot<G>) sometime soon; I'll ask him. I'm not
>a big fan of high nitro content fuels, from my
>Boat Drag racing days, (Motto: Nitro destroys
>bank accounts) but I'll see what Jerry
>says. When I was running my 1.8 and 2.1 Moki
>engines, I actually got more power and higher
>rpm's with FAI fuel than I did with any nirto
>blends. In fact, I could rattle the engine with
>15%. Of course, in one of my several
>conversations with Jim Garrard, (original
>importer of the engine) he said: "The Moki is
>designed to run on 0% nitro. Period." (Very emphatic)
>Question: Do they even make Heli fuel in 15% or
>20%? I've never looked for it, and, just curious.
>Bill Glaze
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:troy at troynewman.net>Troy Newman
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Bill,
>
>They run much smoother on Cool Power 30% heli
>fuel. Because of the special oil. I can’t speak
>for the other fuels but I do know my experience
>with them has been they idle much better and
>smoother on the 30% heli Cool Power. Get with
>Jerry Plyler he saw the difference in the fuels.
>He tried some of the local and went back to the
>good stuff. He’ll be happy to tell you about his experience.
>
>Troy
>
>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:53 PM
>To: General pattern discussion
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Jerry, I intend to try your suggestion. Even if
>the header stays tight, I don't like to see this
>much vibration, inasmuch as, even with the Hyde
>mount, it can't be doing the airframe and electrical components any good.
>If you were getting more power at 30%, then I
>sure won't be rattling the engine with 15%;
>plus, it doesn't act as if it's on the edge of
>detonation. Pump screw is flush with the
>housing, needle is open 2 clicks over 1-1/4
>turns--everything seems to be right. The other
>day, whe I flew it, Itached it at 8800 with an
>APC 16x10 that I like to use on the Focus series.
>Bill Glaze
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net>Jerry Stebbins
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Bill, best I remember it was actually
>better--more power. But then we were running 30%
>heli. If it is rattling around on 15% I sure would try it.
>Jerry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:billglaze at bellsouth.net>Bill Glaze
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Jerry:
>Thanks--do you have any idea about how many
>r.p.m's it will cost me? I'm only running 15%
>fuel, and, as most know, the easiest, (cheap and
>dirty) way to increase h.p. is by increasing
>volumetric efficiency, and the easiest/cheapest
>way to do that is to increase the engine's
>compression ratio. Just wondering how much h.p.
>this will cost me. But, will probably still try
>it anyway--the shaking is obscene.
>Bill
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net>Jerry Stebbins
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Bill, it will not vibrate near as much if you
>install an extra cylinder gasket. ( 2 needed on
>top of the cylinder) Try it and it will tame the
>L down to a respectable level.
>Jerry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:billglaze at bellsouth.net>Bill Glaze
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:54 AM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>In my case, it's a fairly simple problem. The
>1.40L vibrates so much, that the stud unscrews
>from the head, leaving the header dangling in
>space alongside the exhaust port. I have about
>a foot of Teflon tubing between the outlet of
>the header, and the inlet of the Hatori pipe. I
>also have their (NMP) header brace in place to
>try to help stabilize the header.
>The engine has already, after about 6 flights,
>broken a Johnson Header; that's why I am trying
>the NMP. I got the last NMP Central had in
>stock, and they said that the person who was
>making them is not doing so any more. (That's
>what I was told, anyway.) The Hatori pipe is
>sitting on one mount, about halfway back on the
>pipe, and the whole outfit is free to move back
>and forth along with the engine movement. I had
>hoped that, with the entire mess moving, it
>would permit the stud to stay screwed in the
>head. I'm worried lest the stud strip the
>threads in the head. The instructions say that
>"some people have had the header loosen" and to
>try a certain type of Permatex form-a-gasket
>material. I've used this stuff before when I
>had a racing engine business, but I certainly
>never used it in this type of application.
>It seems to me that the entire problem is caused
>by the excessive engine vibration that the 1.40L is known for.
>Any help?
>Bill Glaze
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:troy at troynewman.net>Troy Newman
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>I don’t know what you mean by will it stay attached?
>
>The new header is a wrap around style header
>like the previous NMP and the Hatori 822 style headers.
>
>All of the 120-170 engines have the same head
>configuration (meaning same angle) and same
>thread size. SO the new header will fit all 120-170 engines.
>
>There is one exception. The 120AC has the air
>box on the back of the head. This prevents the
>use of the wrap around style headers on this
>engine. Other than that they are all the same.
>
>The NMP header was a really good header for the
>application. When we were using Teflon tubing to
>connect the header to the pipe it was excellent.
>The problem was Hatori went to the newer style
>pipes that the header slides inside of the neck
>of the pipe with the o-ring. The aluminum tubing
>used on the NMP header was not as bullet proof
>in this application. Remember the Teflon when
>hot would flex. Now the header and the pipe are
>attached to each other. The header slides inside
>the pipe and the result is there is still
>movement but the stress on the thin wall
>aluminum piping is higher. Breaking, and the
>header would get a grove worn in it. Actually
>the o-ring would pinch the aluminum tubing to a
>smaller diameter and the header-pipe combo would
>leak. The added stress of vibration and the
>direct connection many folks would break the header tubing.
>
>The new header is similar to the Hatori in terms
>of connection to the pipe. So that swedging (
>shrinking of the dia at the o-ring) problem and
>the leaking should be solved. In my setup its
>working well on the proto-type headers. Next
>issue is the tubing being stronger to take the
>stress of the direct connection. The solution is
>kind of unique and is working well. Some more
>testing and maybe a few tweaks and its going to
>be a very good replacement for the Hatori 822 and 823.
>
>Troy
>
>
>
>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze
>Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:05 AM
>To: General pattern discussion
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>Troy:
>Will the new header stay attached to the 1.40 L? Bill Glaze
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:troy at troynewman.net>Troy Newman
>To: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>General pattern discussion
>Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:35 AM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
>I don’t believe there is such a prop made as the
>18.1-11 Narrow. It doesn’t exist. I may be wrong
>but I have been involved with running and
>testing the APC props in the 18.1 series and WPN
>series. There is a prop that is designated as
>just 18-11 and this has a narrower blade than
>the 18.1-11. The 18.1 series of props have a
>very wide blade. The 18-11 is more like a 17-13
>or 17-12 in terms of blade shape but its 18in dia and 11 pitch.
>
>I know there is a 16.5-12 I just pulled one out
>in my box-o-props and it has a profile like a
>narrow prop very similar to the 17-10N
however
>it doesn’t have the designation as 16.5-12
>narrow. It’s just called the 16.5-12. If you
>handed it to me with the name scratched off and
>said it was a 16.5-12 I would have said it was a
>Narrow. Same goes for the 18-11 regular it’s a narrow essentially as well.
>
>I don’t know for sure why the “W” designation or
>the “N” for narrow is left off of some props and
>added to others. I think it has a lot to do with
>the equations and program that is used to create the prop profile.
>
>To sum up the props APC has the prop if it is or
>has been produced. I don’t think Fred throws
>any of the molds away. So if a prop was produced
>at one time it might be possible with some
>convincing to get some of them produced again. I
>have been to the factory where the props are
>produced. It amazing how they are produced, and
>the quantity and quality of props produced for a given size.
>
>You may not be asking for it by the proper
>name/designation
.the 16.5-12 (is actually like
>a narrow) and the 18-11 is like a narrow version of the 18.1-11
>
>As for Headers
..the new header is in testing
>and is performing well. The jury is still out,
>we are working hard to insure the bugs are
>worked out. Right things are going well and real
>progress has been made in the last couple
>months. It will be sooner rather than later from
>the looks of things on the new headers.
>
>I hope this helps answer the questions
>
>
>Troy Newman
>
>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of rjo626 at aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:20 PM
>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
>
> Hello all! I'm looking for APC 18.1x11 narrow, and 16.5x12 narrow. Also,
>anyone have a good NMP pattern header they're
>willing to part with / sell? I've
>tried Central Hobbies and APC with no luck. Thanks a bunch!
>
> Later!
> RJO
>
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-->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets.
Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc.
URL: http://www.kcrctn.com
AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177
My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/
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