<html>
<body>
<font size=3>Bill,<br><br>
Moki engines are <u>designed</u> and <u>produced</u> to run on FAI
fuel! That explains your results with various nitro percentages --
but you probably already knew that...<br><br>
At 12:50 PM 11/6/2009, you wrote:<br>
</font><blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>O.K. Troy, I'll be seeing Jerry
(and, probably, Margot<G>) sometime soon; I'll ask him. I'm
not a big fan of high nitro content fuels, from my Boat Drag racing days,
(Motto: Nitro destroys bank accounts) but I'll see what Jerry
says. When I was running my 1.8 and 2.1 Moki engines, I actually
got more power and higher rpm's with FAI fuel than I did with any nirto
blends. In fact, I could rattle the engine with 15%. Of
course, in one of my several conversations with Jim Garrard, (original
importer of the engine) he said: "The Moki is designed to run
on 0% nitro. Period." (Very emphatic)<br>
Question: Do they even make Heli fuel in 15% or 20%? I've
never looked for it, and, just curious.<br>
Bill Glaze<br>
</font>
<dl>
<dd><font size=3>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:troy@troynewman.net">Troy Newman</a> <br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:45 PM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br><br>
<dd>Bill,<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>They run much smoother on Cool Power 30% heli fuel. Because of the
special oil. I can’t speak for the other fuels but I do know my
experience with them has been they idle much better and smoother on the
30% heli Cool Power. Get with Jerry Plyler he saw the difference in
the fuels. He tried some of the local and went back to the good stuff.
He’ll be happy to tell you about his experience. <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Troy<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of
</b>Bill Glaze<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:53 PM<br>
<dd>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Jerry, I intend to try your suggestion. Even if the header
stays tight, I don't like to see this much vibration, inasmuch as, even
with the Hyde mount, it can't be doing the airframe and electrical
components any good.<br>
<dd>If you were getting more power at 30%, then I sure won't be rattling
the engine with 15%; plus, it doesn't act as if it's on the edge of
detonation. Pump screw is flush with the housing, needle is open 2
clicks over 1-1/4 turns--everything seems to be right. The other
day, whe I flew it, Itached it at 8800 with an APC 16x10 that I like to
use on the Focus series.<br>
<dd>Bill Glaze<br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net">Jerry
Stebbins</a> <br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:30 PM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Bill, best I remember it was actually better--more power. But then we
were running 30% heli. If it is rattling around on 15% I sure would try
it.<br>
<dd>Jerry<br>
<dd> <br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">Bill Glaze</a>
<br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:55 PM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Jerry:<br>
<dd>Thanks--do you have any idea about how many r.p.m's it will cost
me? I'm only running 15% fuel, and, as most know, the easiest,
(cheap and dirty) way to increase h.p. is by increasing volumetric
efficiency, and the easiest/cheapest way to do that is to increase the
engine's compression ratio. Just wondering how much h.p. this will
cost me. But, will probably still try it anyway--the shaking is
obscene.<br>
<dd>Bill<br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net">Jerry
Stebbins</a> <br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:10 PM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Bill, it will not vibrate near as much if you install an extra
cylinder gasket. ( 2 needed on top of the cylinder) Try it and it will
tame the L down to a respectable level. <br>
<dd>Jerry<br>
<dd> <br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">Bill Glaze</a>
<br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:54 AM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>In my case, it's a fairly simple problem. The 1.40L vibrates so
much, that the stud unscrews from the head, leaving the header dangling
in space alongside the exhaust port. I have about a foot of Teflon
tubing between the outlet of the header, and the inlet of the Hatori
pipe. I also have their (NMP) header brace in place to try to help
stabilize the header. <br>
<dd>The engine has already, after about 6 flights, broken a Johnson
Header; that's why I am trying the NMP. I got the last NMP Central
had in stock, and they said that the person who was making them is not
doing so any more. (That's what I was told, anyway.) The
Hatori pipe is sitting on one mount, about halfway back on the pipe, and
the whole outfit is free to move back and forth along with the engine
movement. I had hoped that, with the entire mess moving, it would
permit the stud to stay screwed in the head. I'm worried lest the
stud strip the threads in the head. The instructions say that
"some people have had the header loosen" and to try a certain
type of Permatex form-a-gasket material. I've used this stuff
before when I had a racing engine business, but I certainly never used it
in this type of application.<br>
<dd>It seems to me that the entire problem is caused by the excessive
engine vibration that the 1.40L is known for.<br>
<dd>Any help?<br>
<dd>Bill Glaze<br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:troy@troynewman.net">Troy Newman</a> <br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:39 PM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I don’t know what you mean by will it stay attached?<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>The new header is a wrap around style header like the previous NMP
and the Hatori 822 style headers. <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>All of the 120-170 engines have the same head configuration (meaning
same angle) and same thread size. SO the new header will fit all
120-170 engines.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>There is one exception. The 120AC has the air box on the back of the
head. This prevents the use of the wrap around style headers on this
engine. Other than that they are all the same.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>The NMP header was a really good header for the application. When we
were using Teflon tubing to connect the header to the pipe it was
excellent. The problem was Hatori went to the newer style pipes that the
header slides inside of the neck of the pipe with the o-ring. The
aluminum tubing used on the NMP header was not as bullet proof in this
application. Remember the Teflon when hot would flex. Now the header and
the pipe are attached to each other. The header slides inside the pipe
and the result is there is still movement but the stress on the thin wall
aluminum piping is higher. Breaking, and the header would get a grove
worn in it. Actually the o-ring would pinch the aluminum tubing to a
smaller diameter and the header-pipe combo would leak. The added stress
of vibration and the direct connection many folks would break the header
tubing.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>The new header is similar to the Hatori in terms of connection to the
pipe. So that swedging ( shrinking of the dia at the o-ring)
problem and the leaking should be solved. In my setup its working well on
the proto-type headers. Next issue is the tubing being stronger to take
the stress of the direct connection. The solution is kind of unique and
is working well. Some more testing and maybe a few tweaks and its going
to be a very good replacement for the Hatori 822 and 823.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Troy<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of
</b>Bill Glaze<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:05 AM<br>
<dd>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Troy:<br>
<dd>Will the new header stay attached to the 1.40 L? Bill Glaze<br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:troy@troynewman.net">Troy Newman</a> <br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:35 AM<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I don’t believe there is such a prop made as the 18.1-11 Narrow. It
doesn’t exist. I may be wrong but I have been involved with running and
testing the APC props in the 18.1 series and WPN series. There is a
prop that is designated as just 18-11 and this has a narrower blade than
the 18.1-11. The 18.1 series of props have a very wide blade. The
18-11 is more like a 17-13 or 17-12 in terms of blade shape but its 18in
dia and 11 pitch.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I know there is a 16.5-12 I just pulled one out in my box-o-props and
it has a profile like a narrow prop very similar to the 17-10N…however it
doesn’t have the designation as 16.5-12 narrow. It’s just called the
16.5-12. If you handed it to me with the name scratched off and said it
was a 16.5-12 I would have said it was a Narrow. Same goes for the
18-11 regular it’s a narrow essentially as well.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I don’t know for sure why the “W” designation or the “N” for narrow
is left off of some props and added to others. I think it has a lot to do
with the equations and program that is used to create the prop profile.
<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>To sum up the props APC has the prop if it is or has been
produced. I don’t think Fred throws any of the molds away. So if a
prop was produced at one time it might be possible with some convincing
to get some of them produced again. I have been to the factory where the
props are produced. It amazing how they are produced, and the quantity
and quality of props produced for a given size.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>You may not be asking for it by the proper name/designation….the
16.5-12 (is actually like a narrow) and the 18-11 is like a narrow
version of the 18.1-11<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>As for Headers…..the new header is in testing and is performing well.
The jury is still out, we are working hard to insure the bugs are worked
out. Right things are going well and real progress has been made in the
last couple months. It will be sooner rather than later from the looks of
things on the new headers.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I hope this helps answer the questions<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Troy Newman<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of
</b>rjo626@aol.com<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:20 PM<br>
<dd>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> Hello all! I'm looking for APC 18.1x11
narrow, and 16.5x12 narrow. Also,<br>
<dd>anyone have a good NMP pattern header they're willing to part with /
sell? I've <br>
<dd>tried Central Hobbies and APC with no luck. Thanks a bunch!<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> Later!<br>
<dd>
RJO<br>
<hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<div align="center"></div>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl><hr>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<dd>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<dd>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>
</dl>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></font>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=3><b><i>--></font>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=3 color="#800000">There are only two
types of aircraft -- fighters and targets.<br><br>
</i></b></font><font size=3>Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President,
Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc.<br>
URL:
<a href="http://www.kcrctn.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.kcrctn.com<br>
</a>AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177<br>
My URL:
<a href="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/" eudora="autourl">
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/<br>
</a> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541
c </font></body>
</html>