[NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

Tue Nov 3 14:18:16 AKST 2009

Could be....Some clear tape, not packing tape but that decorate and
repair tape would keep the door closed. This stuff has a silicone based
adhesive and works great for all modeling needs.

This is great stuff
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=MMM190

It can be found at ACE hardware and Tru-Value also....Sorry Lowes and
Home Depot don't have it usually. I have a great ACE by the house.

Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:13 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

I don't remove my pack either, but they still get loose.  I'm very 
careful with my equipment, so abuse is not the answer.

Frankly, the double sided tape is not that great of an idea.  The pins 
in the transmitter do not have a large engagement range with the 
connector in the cassette to begin with.  All the tape does is move the 
cassette out on the pins.  I think properly securing the door, and 
adding something to squeeze the cassette in is a better way to do it.

My guess is Futaba 9Z had a better door latch arrangement than the 10x 
and 12x.

Jon Lowe

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

John,

I never had a problem with the 10X or the 12X with the battery cassette
coming loose. I don't remove the cassette from the TX except on very
rare occasions. I can see if a guy is swapping out packs all the time
that the cassette can become loose.

Personally I like the cassette idea. This was something the Futaba 9Z
had and I liked it.

If any of you guys put double sided tape in the TX battery bay use a
small piece, as it will make removing the cassette difficult. I would
suggest up near the connectors maybe 1/2" to the side of the connectors
with a piece about 1/4" wide and 1/2" long or so. This way the cassette
will stay in place and connected but not provide too much stick to keep
it secured forever. Another big note the double side foam tape needs to
be very thin like the Dubro stuff. This way the foam is not so thick to
keep the connectors pins from seating 100%.

For charging I use a standard type wall charger that does about C/10.
What I will actually do most often is come in from flying and stick the
TX on charge at say 300-400ma. Then after about 3-4 hrs I will check and
see if the pack is getting warm. It goes like this come in from flying
about 4pm and stick it on charge. Then after dinner at 6-7pm I'll check
it to see if it is warm...not hot warm.

Then I reduce the charge rate to something like 125ma and leave it on
all night long. Battery doesn't get above a warm condition and works
very well. Personally I think a charge rate of about 180-200ma for about
12hrs will do the same thing.

The newer NIMH cells seem to respond very well at low charge
rates....say 75-80% of C/10 and leave them on for 12-16hrs. The life of
the packs is literally many years doing it this way. I have been running
some 4 cell 2300mah packs in some pattern models since 2006-2007 and
performing like new. I have been treating the NIMH in the TX the same
way.

Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:37 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

Troy, thanks for posting the link.  They should have mailed it to every
registered 12x owner.  I don't know why they made such a complicated
charger if it doesn't peak detect.  Think I will go back to a standard
wall wart at a lower charge rate for overnite charging.  High capacity
NiMh cells (anything over 1650 mah) do NOT like to be overcharged.  In
fact Radical RC recommends charging them at less than C/10.  Their
discussion on high capacity NiMh cells is a good read.  See the
discussion about 2500mah cells about halfway down this page:

http://www.radicalrc.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=3170843&cat=20

I'm glad Horizon FINALLY addressed the problem of the battery coming
loose in the transmitter which is at the bottom of the link. The
battery cassette doesn't have to move far to have it come loose and
lose contact.   I lost an airplane early this year (not a 2m) because
of it.  It has been an issue since they put the cassette in the 10x and
carried the design over to the 12x.  I know of several people who lost
airplanes because the pack came loose and the transmitter shut off
during flight.  The way they have the charge plug going directly into
the pack causes the pack to loosen when you pull the plug out after
charging.  I solved the problem by drilling a small hole in the bottom
of the transmitter body and thru the latch tab on the battery door and
put a tiny sheet metal screw in holding the door shut.  A friend just
uses a piece of packing tape to hold his door solidly shut.  The door
design aggravates the issue because the latch doesn't really lock
solidly into place.  I wish they had gone back to the tried and true
battery lead and plug design.

I emailed Horizon about the issue and never received a reply.  My Dad,
a JR Team Member, did likewise, and did not receive a reply.  In fact,
I have NEVER received a reply to emails sent to Horizon.  However,
their service department is second to none.  Turnaround is really fast,
and they do a good job.

Jon Lowe

-----Original Message-----
From: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:34 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

Troy,

I just actually read the battery bulletin linked in you note.  I like
the 12X
battery even less now.

So I guess in Japan they have 10 hours to sit around their shop
continuously
monitoring their transmitter batteries temperature and intermittently
checking
it's actual voltage....well welcome to america- I don't!

Any one know of a good replacement battery system for the 12 X?

G
---- Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net> wrote:

=============
Try a different TX battery.

I have heard reports of this screen flashing issue with bad TX
batteries. It works fine in the system menu because it's not
transmitting. As soon as it tries to transmit the battery can't handle
the load. If you have a 10X the battery will fit in the 12X and work
just fine.

The PC program is not data safe. Data Safe as a product was a Horizon
hobby product that was an aftermarket product that saved the program as
a file on your PC....It was not a JR Japan product.

The 12X comes with a program that allows you to back up and edit the
programs on the PC. It came with your 12X as a free accessory. It is 12X
specific. Works very very well.

The reason data safe doesn't work is because the 12X was not around when
Data Safe or Data Safe Ultra was written by a 3rd party vendor.

By the way the 12X program only does the 12X, but is very cool in that
you can see and print all settings, and even edit setting right on the
PC then load it back into the TX.

JR Japan has another program that has the same look and feel as the 12X
program, but it works with the older radios. It looks exactly the same
but because it goes backwards in compatibility it doesn't do the 12X.

Onto your 12X it's not a bad a idea to have HH check it out, but I would
bet it's a battery issue. On another note the charger that comes with
your 12X is not a peak detection charger...even though it kind of looks
like one and the manual seems to imply that it is. This charger should
not be used on the 12X battery for than 10hrs. The battery will become
very hot and will shorten its life. A bulletin was issues earlier this
year regarding the charger.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Support.aspx?ProdID=JRP12001

If your charger was left on for 2-3 days like some folks have reported
before the light when solid, and or the battery got very hot this could
be the reason for the battery failure. Contact HH and they will be able
to help you. In the mean time try a good 10X battery cartridge if you
have one. If not let me know offline and I'll send you mine from my 10X
to hold you over or at least get everything off the 12X you have.

Troy Newman
Team JR / Horizon Hobby
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