[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

Sun May 10 19:42:37 AKDT 2009

Ron,
 I agree. That maneuver is fine for Masters class. The point I was trying to 
make was that if Masters guys are challenged by a maneuver like this, what 
do you think will happen to an Intermediate pilot when faced with a similar 
situation?

John Pavlick
http://www.idseng.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

That's what's called a "personal problem".  I find that the Two of
Two 1/2 Rolls, Opposite is very difficult to keep in the box and,
using the logic I've sometimes seen here, it should be removed from
the Master class maneuver schedule.  It won't and shouldn't.

Ron

On May 10, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:

> John,
>
>
>
> In that post George is referring to the 3 horizontal rolls that  used to
> be in what is now Intermediate.  It really wasn’t that hard  to fit in the
> box as long as you started early.  The problem that  most people have is
> they wait way too long to start the rolling stuff.
>
>
>
> Arch
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:18 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> What schedule are we talking about? I thought it was the Masters
> schedule.
>
>
>
> John Pavlick
> http://www.idseng.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: George W.Kennie
>
> To: General pattern discussion
>
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
>
>
> John,
>
>
>
> Remember, the maneuver is performed after a previous box exit.  So,  you
> enter the box, have all day to set up for it, and you're only  doing  1 &
> 1/2  rolls either side of center. I've seen guys use  this much space
> doing the current 2 point with a significant  hesitation.
>
>
>
> Archie is right on the money. That's the reason I use the old, old
> Intermediate schedule to train newbies. If I can get 'em thru this  thing,
> then the current schedules are duck soup for them.  It's  like practicing
> the P-09 and then going to a contest and flying  Sportsman.
>
>
>
> G.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: John Pavlick
>
> To: General pattern discussion
>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> Georgie,
>
> Did you ever see anyone REALLY grease that maneuver? I haven't. It  ALWAYS
> looks rushed. And these are Masters pilots. Big difference  between them
> and Intermediate pilots. The only way it would work is  if both
> turnarounds (before and after the maneuver) were something  like a stall
> turn or a half square loop. Anything else would be  tough for an
> Intermediate pilot.
>
>
>
> John Pavlick
> http://www.idseng.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: George W.Kennie
>
> To: General pattern discussion
>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
>
>
> Isn't it amazing that we have combination maneuvers like Two of Two
> folowed by a Slow Roll opposite all on one line, including entry  and exit
> lines, and people still think that you can't get three  consecutive rolls
> in the box.
>
>
>
> Stymies me !
>
>
>
> Who else?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Glen Watson
>
> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:02 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> Chuck,
>
>
>
> In the early nineties when I got started in pattern the Sportsman
> sequence now known as Intermediate had three rolls.  I flew 2cycle  then
> (Saphire, LA-1) and had no problem fitting the maneuver in the  box as
> well as centering.  I believe this built many early skill  sets that have
> helped me in the long run over the years.
>
>
>
> I’m of the opinion pattern sequences should present challenges to  ones
> current skill set.  Without a challenge why do pattern at all.
>
>
>
> Glen
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hochhalter
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:15 AM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> Anyone notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I don’t  think they
> lower class has the box management skills to fit 3 rolls  into the box,
> let alone be ready to center them.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> From: ronlock at comcast.net
>
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:25 PM
>
> To: General pattern discussion
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> Re comments below-
> I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two  rolls,
> and not three, is-
> Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most
> intermediate pilots -
> And two is enough for judging-   Particularly, if you see two going
> badly, not many of us
> want to see a third.
>
> Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year  because of
> beating 4 other pilots -
> That is already fixed.  The 2009 rule  "..flier must move out of
> Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or
> subsequent year of participation if he/she places first or second  and
> above at least 4 other fliers..."
>
> Ron Lockhart
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Hansen" <rcpilot at wowway.com>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
> I’ve been flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4.  The  two
> rolls are still kicking my you know what.  I can do one slow  roll and one
> 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls.  I’m certain  that the average
> advance pilot would really have trouble with 3  rolls.  I see a lot of
> intermediate, advanced and sometimes even  masters pilots almost loose
> airplanes on the horizontal rolling  maneuvers.  They shouldn’t be
> underestimated.
>
>
>
> I agree with Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a  guideline.  I
> had to move up from sportsman to intermediate after  my first year in
> sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots.  I was  flying a Kaos and the
> other pilots were all flying their 1st  contests with trainers.  They had
> no chance.  In the end I’m glade  I moved up but at the time it made me
> real nervous.  I was so  determined to fly pattern that I decided to give
> it the old college  try in intermediate.
>
>
>
> I think Advance could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.
> Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty good.
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lewis
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> There is a provision in the current rule set to accomodate these
> situations, see 8.1.2 of the competition regulations....
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> From: "jeffghughes at comcast.net" <jeffghughes at comcast.net>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
> Bob,
>
> I understand completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter  got
> sick and I've been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has  regressed,
> and my confidence along with it.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
> I know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great
> example of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed  nicely
> through the system, but then when you got to Masters…a time  when you
> really need to practice even more to be competitive, your  job suddenly
> changed,  home life became more complex, and you’re  lucky to fly 10
> practice flights a year outside of contests.   Your  experience and skill
> would allow you to be competitive in Advanced,  without dominating and
> likely have a lot more fun being a spoiler  to that crowd, rather than
> trying to fly masters without hardly  even knowing the pattern.
>
>
>
> You’re the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to  choose
> where they fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment.
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
>
>
> Hey, I resemble that remark . . . . . . .
>
>
>
> Bob Kane
> getterflash at yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "jeffghughes at comcast.net" <jeffghughes at comcast.net>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Cc: Don Ramsey <don.ramsey at suddenlink.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System
>
> This is all pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't   really
> care who beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I  just knew that
> I was seeing the skill level necessary to win. While  it's nice to win a
> trophy in the lower classes, I understood I  wasn't competing against the
> best pilots anyway.  From what I've  seen there is a huge variation of
> talent within a class anyway.  I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't
> win in advanced if they  bumped back down (maybe not even in
> intermediate). People move up  for all kinds of reasons unrelated to skill
> level.  It's also  interesting that we talk about using each class to
> improve our  flying until we get to Masters, then it appears nobody wants
> to  improve to FAI.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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