[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

Sat May 9 03:57:18 AKDT 2009

 Exactly my point earlier.  I did it in the late 60's in class A.  I did 3 inside loops also.  The equipment we had then was no match for todays.  I will say that we didn't have the box to contend with on the rolls, but that shouldn't be the issue with three consecutive rolls.  I think do three loops would help establish yaw and roll control much earlier in a pilots learning curve.  I remember telling a new flyer in Sportsman a few years back to do 100 loops and get his control down.  He did about 75 that nite, and came back on Sunday vastly improved.  He regularly beats me now.  Never should have done that... ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Keiser <jtkeiser at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

I wonder why two horizontal rolls is a "challenge" 
for today's Intermediate pilots when three horizontal rolls were required of 
Sportsman pilots with those crappy planes 30 years ago?

Jack

----- Original Message ----- 

From: 
  ronlock at comcast.net 

To: General pattern discussion 

Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:25 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
  Advancement System

Re comments 
  below-
I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two 
  rolls, and not three, is-
Figuring20two rolls are challenge and training 
  enough for most intermediate pilots -
And two is enough for judging-   
  Particularly, if you see two going badly, not many of us
want to see a 
  third.

Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year 
  because of beating 4 other pilots -
That is already fixed.  The 2009 
  rule  "..flier must move out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar 
  year of his/her second or subsequent year of participation if he/she places 
  first or second and above at least 4 other fliers..."

Ron 
  Lockhart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hansen" 
  <rcpilot at wowway.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" 
  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 
  PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement 
  System

I’ve been flying 
  intermediate for about 3 years going on 4.  The two rolls 
  are still kicking my you know what.  I can do one slow roll 
  and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls.  I’m 
  certain that the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3 
  rolls.  I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes 
  even masters pilots almost loose airplanes on the 
  horizontal rolling maneuvers.  They shouldn’t be 
  underestimated.

I agree with Mark, 
  lets make advancement at all levels
 a guideline.  I had to 
  move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in sportsman 
  because I beat 4 other pilots.  I was flying a Kaos and the other pilots were all flying their 
  1st contests with trainers.  They had no 
  chance.  In the end I’m glade I moved up but at the time it 
  made me real nervous.  I was so determined to fly pattern 
  that I decided to give it the old college try in 
  intermediate.

I think Advance could 
  use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.  Otherwise, I 
  believe all the sequences are pretty good.

Ron 

-----Original 
  Message-----
From: 
  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
  [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lewis
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 
  PM
To: General pattern 
  discussion
Subject: Re: 
  [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

There is a provision in 
  the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the 
  competition regulations....

Richard

From: 
  "jeffghughes at comcast.net" <jeffghughes at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion 
  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24 
  PM
Subject: Re: 
  [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

 20

Bob,

I understand 
  completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been to 
  one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along with 
  it. 

Jeff

----- Original 
  Message -----
From: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
To: 
  "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: 
  Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: 
  [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

I know 
  you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example of someone 
  that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the system, but then 
  when you got to Masters…a time when you really need to practice even more to 
  be competitive, your job suddenly changed,  home life became more 
  complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a year outside of 
  contests.   Your experience and skill would allow you to be 
  competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more fun 
  being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without 
  hardly even knowing the pattern.

You’re 
  the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly 
  (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment.  

From: 
  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
=2
0 [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 
  PM
To: General pattern 
  discussion
Subject: Re: 
  [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

Hey, I 
  resemble that remark . . . . . . .

Bob 
  Kane
getterflash at yahoo.com

From: 
  "jeffghughes at comcast.net" <jeffghughes at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion 
  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Cc: Don Ramsey 
  <don.ramsey at suddenlink.net>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58 
  PM
Subject: Re: 
  [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System

This is all pretty 
  interesting. From my perspective, I didn't  really care who beat me when 
  I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the skill 
  level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower classes, 
  I understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway.  From 
  what I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a class 
  anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if 
  they bumped back down (maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for 
  all kinds of reasons unrelated to skill level.  It's also 
  interesting that we talk about using each class to improve our flying until we 
  get to Masters, then it appears=2
0nobody wants to improve to FAI. 

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