<div> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly my point earlier. I did it in the late 60's in class A. I did 3 inside loops also. The equipment we had then was no match for todays. I will say that we didn't have the box to contend with on the rolls, but that shouldn't be the issue with three consecutive rolls. I think do three loops would help establish yaw and roll control much earlier in a pilots learning curve. I remember telling a new flyer in Sportsman a few years back to do 100 loops and get his control down. He did about 75 that nite, and came back on Sunday vastly improved. He regularly beats me now. Never should have done that... ;)</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jack Keiser <jtkeiser@comcast.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:15 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_ee9774b4-e2e0-4364-97c4-ab2c3fba50a4">
<style type="text/css">#AOLMsgPart_3_ee9774b4-e2e0-4364-97c4-ab2c3fba50a4 P { MARGIN: 0px}</style>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I wonder why two horizontal rolls is a "challenge"
for today's Intermediate pilots when three horizontal rolls were required of
Sportsman pilots with those crappy planes 30 years ago?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Jack</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2 px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="ronlock@comcast.net" href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2009 8:25 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
=2
0 Advancement System</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;">Re comments
below-<br>
I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two
rolls, and not three, is-<br>
Figuring two rolls are challenge and training
enough for most intermediate pilots -<br>
And two is enough for judging-
Particularly, if you see two going badly, not many of us<br>
want to see a
third.<br>
<br>
Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year
because of beating 4 other pilots -<br>
That is already fixed. The 2009
rule "..flier must move out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar
year of his/her second or subsequent year of participation if he/she places
first or second and above at least 4 other fliers..."<br>
<br>
Ron
Lockhart<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Ron Hansen"
<<a href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36
PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement
System<br>
<br>
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<div class="Section1">
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">I’ve been flying
intermediate for about 3 years going on 4. <span> </sp an>The two rolls
are still kicking my you know what.<span> </span>I can do one slow roll
and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. <span> </span>I’m
certain that the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3
rolls.<span> </span>I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes
even <span class="GramE">masters</span> pilots almost loose airplanes on the
horizontal rolling maneuvers.<span> </span>They shouldn’t be
underestimated.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">I agree with Mark,
lets make advancement at all levels a guideline.<span> </span>I had to
move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in sportsman
because I beat 4 other pilots.<span> </span>I was flying a <span class="SpellE">Kaos</span> and the other pilots were all flying their
1<sup>st</sup> contests with trainers.<span> </span>They had no
chance.<span> </span>In the end I’m glade I moved up but at the time it
made me real nervous.<span> </span>I was so determined to fly pattern
that I decided to give it the old college try in
intermediate.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial "><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">I think Advance could
use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.<span> </span>Otherwise, I
believe all the sequences are pretty good.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Ron
</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Lewis<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern
discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advanceme
nt System</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">There is a provision in
the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the
competition regulations....</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Richard</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center; margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in;" class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">
"<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>" <
;<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Bob,</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">I understand
completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been to
one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along with
it. </span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Jeff</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
----- Original
Message -----<br>
From: "Mark Atwood" <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
To:
"General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent:
Friday, Ma
y 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I know
you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example of someone
that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the system, but then
when you got to Masters…a time when you really need to practice even more to
be competitive, your job suddenly changed, home life became more
complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a year outside of
contests. Your experience and skill would allow you to be
competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more fun
being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without
hardly even knowing the pattern.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly20
(which pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Kane<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern
discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Hey, I
resemble that remark . . . . . . .</span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Bob
Kane<br>
<a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a></span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center; margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in;" class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">
"<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Don Ramsey
<<a href="mailto:don.ramsey@suddenlink.net">don.ramsey@suddenlink.net</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">This is all pretty
interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who beat me when
I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the skill
level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower classes,
I understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway. From
what I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a class
anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if
they bumped back down (maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for
all kinds of reasons unre
lated to skill level. It's also
interesting that we talk about using each class to improve our flying until we
get to Masters, then it appears nobody wants to improve to FAI.
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">No virus found in
this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a target="_blank" href="http://www.avg.com/">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database:
270.12.21/2103 - Release Date: 05/07/09 18:05:00</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></div>
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________<br>
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A-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
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