[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Tue Mar 3 07:06:19 AKST 2009

I would just give a score based on my IMPRESSION of the landing. . . it it
looks good, then a 9 - 9.5 - or 10 depending on how I felt the pilots flight
went prior to the landing and other previous flights I have judged.

If anyone presses me afterward, I will just claim the "smooth and graceful"
clause in the AMA rulebook. . . that covers everything!!!

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM, billglaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>  Don:
> There are times when for one reason or another, the field is unmarked with
> a landing zone, and the CD announces that the LZ is the entire runway,
> making the LZ and the LA  the same.  That's what leads to doubt in judging
> landings.  At least in my case, and, apparently, other folks also.  And,
> like Georgie, I've also seen the 2 meter requirement mentioned; can't put my
> finger on it right now, but I've seen it in some official document.
> Bill Glaze
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Don Ramsey <donramsey at gmail.com>
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions
>
>  I just check all the PowerPoint presentations on the website and they all
> say the same thing.  LANDING AREA: the entire defined runway.  LANDING
> ZONE is 30 m long and normally the width of the runway BUT not more than 30
> M wide.
>
>
>
> Georgie, the landing never has been required to be within 2 meters of
> center for maximum points.  As long as I was judging chairman (and before)
> it was 30 meters centered on the judges.  Landing in that area could score
> max points. (The takeoff should lift off within 2 meters of center for max
> points).
>
>
>
> There is a lot of times when the aircraft may stop within 10 meters after
> landing and there are many times when it may not.  For instance, grass
> runway with high grass or a smooth cement runway and no wind.  The intent
> of the rule was to allow max points for either case. I’ve flown in some
> contests where if you landed in the landing zone (for max points) it was
> almost impossible to keep the plane from exiting the end of the runway.
> Solution: land about 10 meters before center, roll 10 meters and be
> finished, then don’t worry about running off the end.
>
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *George W.Kennie
> *Sent:* Monday, March 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> *To:* General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions
>
>
>
> # 2 screw-up !!!!   It's not "roll to a stop within 15 meters",  it's 10
> meters, but the "stop" is still the elementle crux, I think.  If it says "
> no downgrade if the model rolls to a stop within 10 meters"  doesn't that
> infer that if the model continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a
> downgradeable offence (1/2pt +)?
>
>
>
> And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we come up with the axiom  "
> for maximum landing points, touchdown should occur < 2 meters either side of
> the centerline"?  Is that FAI ? Did I make it up? Am I totally losing it?
> How the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff straight?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* John Konneker <jlkonn at hotmail.com>
>
> *To:* Discussion List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions
>
>
>
> Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:
> *Landing: *The landing maneuver will be scored in half point increments
> from 10 to 0. The maneuver will start two (2) meters from the ground. The
> model flares smoothly to a nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and
> then smoothly touches the ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver
> should be considered *complete once the plane has slowed below flying
> speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades
> shall be applied after that point*.
> The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed perpendicular across the
> runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the landing zone is normally
> the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters. *Landing is
> not a centered maneuver and there is no downgrade for displacement of the
> touchdown point left or right from center as long as the landing is in the
> landing zone.* If the touchdown is within the runway but not in the
> landing zone it should be downgraded proportionate to the distance outside
> the landing zone. The Contest Director may designate any landing zone
> appropriate to the field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing
> zone is anything other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with
> the pilots and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be
> applied due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone.
> Emphasis added by me.  This of course for AMA classes.
> JLK
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> From: geobet4 at verizon.net
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
>
>
> This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that noone else has responded to
> your inquiry so just to prove that I have not learned my lesson, here goes.
>
>
>
> In the landing descriptor it states, " there is no down grade if the model
> rolls to a stop within 15 meters".   I think the crucial word is STOP !
> What does this mean to proper execution?   How many times have you seen a
> plane touch down perfectly within one meter of the center line and then
> proceed to roll perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a
> single bounce for a distance of 150 feet?  A little hot maybe, but to most
> observers, a beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters"
> stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence.
> Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control
> the approach airspeed so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed
> controlling the rollout distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on
> this. I think this would also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter
> rollout.
>
>
>
> If the pilot performs a landing and meets all the above requirements and
> then encounters an obstacle, whether that be a hole or a hummock or
> whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's
> control" and score a 10.  Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the
> plane being outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel
> e.t.c.) and would require discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.
>
>
>
> And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical impossibility to enter and exit
> a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think that needs correcting.
>
>
>
> Of course, all this is my opinionated interpretation of matters and should
> be so received.
>
>
>
> G.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* billglaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net>
>
> *To:* nsrca- discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM
>
> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions
>
>
>
> At the risk of starting another downwind turn discussion:
>
>
>
> I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like
> a question answered that I've had for a long time.
>
> On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an automatic zero?
> I've felt for a long time that it should be, yet I've had people tell me
> "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost interest in the
> airplane."  It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't affect the
> score, is their idea.
>
> Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then rolls immediately
> into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is the landing zeroed?
> I've been called for doing so once.
>
> Secondly, in reading the presentation for Intermediate, it states for the
> Split S:  A downgrade if the entry and exit are not at the same altitude.
> Seems to me to be an error that slipped by, but I've been wrong before.
> (Honest; yes, it's happened!)<G>  I've been known to incorrectly
> read/interpret also.  Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the
> list!
>
> thanks
>
> Bill Glaze
>
> NSRCA 2388
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>
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-- 

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com
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