[NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs

billglaze billglaze at bellsouth.net
Mon Mar 2 15:52:36 AKST 2009


Before I went with the Airline, I did a lot of Flight Instructing.  The 
hardest thing to teach a student?  It wasn't landings; it was to fly 
straight and level, same altitude, airspeed and heading.
Bill Glaze
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs


> Amen.  I guess no one remembers the mess we had a couple of years ago with 
> 0 or 10 takeoffs and landings.  Suddenly, everyone forgot how to do it 
> safely.  And I disagree that it is not an aerobatic manuever.  Very hard 
> to do perfectly, but good ones are beautiful.  Is straight and level 
> flight "aerobatic"?  We judge it in every class.
>
>
> Jon Lowe
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J Shu <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 5:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
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> I'd much rather see take-offs and landings
> be judged. What's the incentive of having a pilot learn how to learn a
> proper (and safe) take-off and landing if there is no 10 to shoot for? And 
> not a
> 0 or 10, but scored. Just because it wouldn't be scored doesn't make a 
> pilot try
> and make a safe take-off or landing.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
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>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From:
>  Tim
>  Taylor
>
>
> To: General pattern discussion
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> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53
> PM
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> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings
>  and Takeoffs
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> I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't be judged. Add one turn around
>         and center maneuver to the classes that score them. Exit the box 
> down
>        wind then they can make a 180 to landing.
>
>
> Tim
>
> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie <geobet4 at verizon.net>
>        wrote:
>
>
>
> From:
>          George W.Kennie <geobet4 at verizon.net>
> Subject:
>          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
> To: "General pattern
>          discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Monday,
>          March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM
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> I think that dropping the scoring
>          of TOs and LGs with the intent of reducing risk will be only
>           minimally effective. There are always going to be individuals 
> who
>          will experience difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance,
>           ineptitude, whatever, no matter how many times they go around. I 
> can
>          think of individuals who would include me in the group.
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> G.
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> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: J N Hiller
>
>
> To: bob at toprudder.com ; General pattern discussion
>
>
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009
>            3:13 PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>            Landings and Takeoffs
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> You make a good argument
> 20            for dropping takeoff and landing scoring. I have aborted 
> landings
>            more than once.
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>
> Jim
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> -----Original
>          Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>           [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of 
> Bob
>          Richards
> Sent:
>          Monday, March 02, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: General pattern
>          discussion
> Subject:
>          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
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> I'll
>                 say it here, JMHO. I personally don't think takeoffs and
>                 landings should be judged. These are the maneuvers that 
> put the
>                 plane closest to the pilots/judges/spectators. I've seen 
> some
>                bad takeoffs and landing approaches pushed to dangerous
>                 situations when they would probably have been aborted had 
> they
>                 not been scored maneuvers. At the very least, the airplane 
> is at
>                 risk. At the most, people are at risk. I've had one plane 
> fly
>                 behind my head at the Nats (between myself,20my caller, 
> and the
>                 judges) during a landing when the plane got away from the 
> pilot
>                 during one such occurance. I've also seen a plane slam 
> into a
>                 person in the pits at full throttle, just after lifting 
> off the
>                 ground, when the plane first veered away from the pits and 
> the
>                 pilot forced the takeoff by kicking rudder to get it back 
> on the
>                 runway. At no point did he back off the throttle. In most
>                 situations such as this, anyone would have aborted and 
> started
>                 over, but because they are being judged they keep on 
> pushing a
>                bad situation.
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> And,
>                 no, niether situation involved someone in the Sportsman or
>                 Intermediate classes. These were both contestants that had 
> flown
>                pattern for several years.
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> I
>                thank god they don't judge takeoffs and landings in
>                IMAC.
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> JM2CW0D
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> Bob
>                R.
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>
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> ---
>                On Mon, 3/2/09, George
>                W.Kennie <geobet4 at verizon.net>
>                wrote:
>
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> I don't feel the same way as John on the
>                 landing maneuver being relegated to a non-skill element.
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> All
>                 aerobatic maneuvers that we perform competitively require 
> that
>                 we demonstrate to a judge that we have developed some 
> precise
>                 degree of control over the airframe under our command. To
>                 achieve this control further requires intense 
> concentration on
>                 the part of the pilot. I would offer that there are many
>                 airborne maneuvers where the degree of concentration 
> required by
>                 the pilot are significantly lower than that required to 
> bring
>                 the airframe back into contact with terra firma and 
> demonstrate
>                 complete and confident control. This is a skill that is 
> worthy
>            20   of reward in my viewpoint.
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> G.
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