[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Mon Mar 2 12:57:22 AKST 2009

Here's another one for you (assuming "landing zone" and "landing area" are
synonymous):

>From the description

If the touchdown is within the runway but not in the landing zone it should
be downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. 

>From the judging guide section

9. Aircraft lands outside the landing area or runway, zero (0) points. 

I guess the description would take precedent.

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From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of billglaze
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:27 PM
To: Jim Quinn; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Jim:

That's what we're trying to hash out here; just what is the rule?  Some
questions abound;  Chris straightened out some of the stuff, but it appears
from the differences here that a further definition may be required;
somebody mentioned next rules cycle.  Sounds good to me.  Georgie had a good
interpretation, looking at the anomalies, which should be, and can be,
eliminated, I feel.  Chris, (and many others) also have been helpful.

BTW: did you get my check?

Bill Glaze

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jim Quinn <mailto:jaqfly at prodigy.net>  

To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:16 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

If you're rolling on the pavement at the Nats or on the grass at the Black
Dirt's runway there is a huge difference in the roll out. I say just follow
the rule.

Jim Quinn

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From: George W.Kennie <geobet4 at verizon.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 12:22:40 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

# 2 screw-up !!!!   It's not "roll to a stop within 15 meters",  it's 10
meters, but the "stop" is still the elementle crux, I think.  If it says "
no downgrade if the model rolls to a stop within 10 meters"  doesn't that
infer that if the model continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a
downgradeable offence (1/2pt +)?

And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we come up with the axiom  "
for maximum landing points, touchdown should occur < 2 meters either side of
the centerline"?  Is that FAI ? Did I make it up? Am I totally losing it?
How the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff straight?

----- Original Message ----- 

From: John Konneker <mailto:jlkonn at hotmail.com>  

To: Discussion List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:
Landing: The landing maneuver will be scored in half point increments from
10 to 0. The maneuver will start two (2) meters from the ground. The model
flares smoothly to a nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then
smoothly touches the ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be
considered complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled
10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied
after that point. 
The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed perpendicular across the
runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the landing zone is normally
the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters. Landing is
not a centered maneuver and there is no downgrade for displacement of the
touchdown point left or right from center as long as the landing is in the
landing zone. If the touchdown is within the runway but not in the landing
zone it should be downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the
landing zone. The Contest Director may designate any landing zone
appropriate to the field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing
zone is anything other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with
the pilots and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be
applied due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone. 
Emphasis added by me.  This of course for AMA classes.
JLK

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From: geobet4 at verizon.net
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Bill,

This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that noone else has responded to
your inquiry so just to prove that I have not learned my lesson, here goes. 

In the landing descriptor it states, " there is no down grade if the model
rolls to a stop within 15 meters".   I think the crucial word is STOP !
What does this mean to proper execution?   How many times have you seen a
plane touch down perfectly within one meter of the center line and then
proceed to roll perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a
single bounce for a distance of 150 feet?  A little hot maybe, but to most
observers, a beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters"
stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence.
Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control
the approach airspeed so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed
controlling the rollout distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on
this. I think this would also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter
rollout.

If the pilot performs a landing and meets all the above requirements and
then encounters an obstacle, whether that be a hole or a hummock or
whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's
control" and score a 10.  Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the
plane being outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel
e.t.c.) and would require discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.

And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical impossibility to enter and exit
a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think that needs correcting. 

Of course, all this is my opinionated interpretation of matters and should
be so received.

G.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: billglaze <mailto:billglaze at bellsouth.net>  

To: nsrca- discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

At the risk of starting another downwind turn discussion:

I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like a
question answered that I've had for a long time.

On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an automatic zero?
I've felt for a long time that it should be, yet I've had people tell me
"after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost interest in the airplane."
It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't affect the score, is their
idea.  

Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then rolls immediately
into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is the landing zeroed?
I've been called for doing so once.

Secondly, in reading the presentation for Intermediate, it states for the
Split S:  A downgrade if the entry and exit are not at the same altitude.
Seems to me to be an error that slipped by, but I've been wrong before.
(Honest; yes, it's happened!)<G>  I've been known to incorrectly
read/interpret also.  Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the
list!

thanks

Bill Glaze

NSRCA 2388

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