[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

Mon Mar 2 09:30:51 AKST 2009

O.K. Chris, then:  If the airplane touches down in the last 2 meters of the Liz, and the LZ is the entire mowed portion of the field, (as is commonly the case in local contests,) and rolls those 2 meters, leaves the LZ, (remember, it has TOUCHED DOWN IN THE LZ) AND LEAVES THE LZ, noses over, then what?  This happened at one of our D2 contests, (in fact, I believe you were there, as I recall, but certainly not judging this round.)  I zeroed it, and got disagreed with.
Bill
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Moon 
  To: General pattern discussion 
  Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

  Ok, 

  1. to get possible max points, the plane must touch down in the landing zone
  2. once the plane is below flying speed and has traveled 10 meters on the ground, judges close your eyes...you are done.
  3. there is no inference that you MUST travel 10 meters nor stop within 10 meters, it says there is no downgrade if you travel less than 10 meters.
      If it rolls 11 meters then explodes, it is no downgrade.  If it stops at 9 meters and then the wind blows it over, again no downgrade

  Rule book paste:
  The maneuver should be considered complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after that point. 

  Chris

  George W.Kennie wrote: 
    # 2 screw-up !!!!   It's not "roll to a stop within 15 meters",  it's 10 meters, but the "stop" is still the elementle crux, I think.  If it says " no downgrade if the model rolls to a stop within 10 meters"  doesn't that infer that if the model continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a downgradeable offence (1/2pt +)?

    And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we come up with the axiom  " for maximum landing points, touchdown should occur < 2 meters either side of the centerline"?  Is that FAI ? Did I make it up? Am I totally losing it? How the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff straight?

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: John Konneker 
      To: Discussion List 
      Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

      Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:
      Landing: The landing maneuver will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver will start two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after that point. 
      The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the landing zone is normally the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters. Landing is not a centered maneuver and there is no downgrade for displacement of the touchdown point left or right from center as long as the landing is in the landing zone. If the touchdown is within the runway but not in the landing zone it should be downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. The Contest Director may designate any landing zone appropriate to the field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing zone is anything other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with the pilots and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be applied due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone. 
      Emphasis added by me.  This of course for AMA classes.
      JLK

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      From: geobet4 at verizon.net
      To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
      Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

      Bill,

      This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to prove that I have not learned my lesson, here goes. 

      In the landing descriptor it states, " there is no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15 meters".   I think the crucial word is STOP !   What does this mean to proper execution?   How many times have you seen a plane touch down perfectly within one meter of the center line and then proceed to roll perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a single bounce for a distance of 150 feet?  A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters" stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control the approach airspeed so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed controlling the rollout distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on this. I think this would also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.

      If the pilot performs a landing and meets all the above requirements and then encounters an obstacle, whether that be a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score a 10.  Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the plane being outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would require discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.

      And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think that needs correcting. 

      Of course, all this is my opinionated interpretation of matters and should be so received.

      G.

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: billglaze 
        To: nsrca- discussion 
        Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM
        Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions

        At the risk of starting another downwind turn discussion:

        I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had for a long time.
        On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an automatic zero?  I've felt for a long time that it should be, yet I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost interest in the airplane."  It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't affect the score, is their idea.  
        Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is the landing zeroed?  I've been called for doing so once.
        Secondly, in reading the presentation for Intermediate, it states for the Split S:  A downgrade if the entry and exit are not at the same altitude.  Seems to me to be an error that slipped by, but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's happened!)<G>  I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret also.  Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the list!
        thanks
        Bill Glaze
        NSRCA 2388

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