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<DIV><FONT size=2>O.K. Chris, then: If the airplane touches down in the
last 2 meters of the Liz, and the LZ is the entire mowed portion of the field,
(as is commonly the case in local contests,) and rolls those 2 meters, leaves
the LZ, (remember, it has TOUCHED DOWN IN THE LZ) AND LEAVES THE LZ, noses
over, then what? This happened at one of our D2 contests, (in fact, I
believe you were there, as I recall, but certainly not judging this
round.) I zeroed it, and got disagreed with.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cjm767driver@hotmail.com href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">Chris
Moon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 1:14
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ok, <BR><BR>1. to get possible max points, the plane must touch
down in the landing zone<BR>2. once the plane is below flying speed and has
traveled 10 meters on the ground, judges close your eyes...you are done.<BR>3.
there is no inference that you MUST travel 10 meters nor stop within 10
meters, it says there is no downgrade if you travel less than 10
meters.<BR> If it rolls 11 meters then explodes, it is no
downgrade. If it stops at 9 meters and then the wind blows it over,
again no downgrade<BR><BR>Rule book paste:<BR><BIG><FONT
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><B><FONT size=2><BIG><FONT
size=2><BIG><BIG>The maneuver should be considered <STRONG>complete once the
plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop
and no further downgrades shall be applied after that point</STRONG>.
</BIG></BIG></FONT></BIG></FONT></B></FONT></BIG><BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>George
W.Kennie wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial># 2 screw-up !!!! It's not "roll to a stop
within 15 meters", it's 10 meters, but the "stop" is still the
elementle crux, I think. If it says " no downgrade if the model rolls
to a stop within 10 meters" doesn't that infer that if the model
continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a downgradeable offence
(1/2pt +)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we come
up with the axiom " for maximum landing points, touchdown should occur
< 2 meters either side of the centerline"? Is that FAI
?</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>Did I make it up? Am I totally losing it? How
the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff straight?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Cut and pasted from the AMA website this
morning:<BR><B><FONT size=2>Landing: </FONT></B><FONT
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2>The landing maneuver will be
scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver will start two
(2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a nose high
altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the ground,
within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered
<STRONG>complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled
10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied
after that point</STRONG>. <BR>The landing zone shall be marked by lines
placed perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The
width of the landing zone is normally the width of the runway but in no
case shall exceed 30 meters. <STRONG>Landing is not a centered maneuver
and there is no downgrade for displacement of the touchdown point left or
right from center as long as the landing is in the landing zone.</STRONG>
If the touchdown is within the runway but not in the landing zone it
should be downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the landing
zone. The Contest Director may designate any landing zone appropriate to
the field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing zone is
anything other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with the
pilots and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be
applied due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone. <BR><FONT
size=3>Emphasis added by me. This of course for AMA
classes.</FONT><BR>JLK<BR></FONT></FONT><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">geobet4@verizon.net</A><BR>To: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions<BR><BR>
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</STYLE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>This is probably inaccurate, but I notice
that noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to prove that I
have not learned my lesson, here goes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>In the landing descriptor it states, " there
is no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15
meters". I think the crucial word is STOP ! What
does this mean to proper execution? How many times have you
seen a plane touch down perfectly within one meter of the center line and
then proceed to roll perfectly straight down the center of the runway
without a single bounce for a distance of 150 feet? A little hot
maybe, but to most observers, a beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop
within 15 meters" stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a
downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's
responsibility to also control the approach airspeed so that touchdown
occurs just above stall speed controlling the rollout distance, but maybe
somebody will correct me on this. I think this would also cover stuff like
flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>If the pilot performs a landing and
meets all the above requirements and then encounters an obstacle, whether
that be a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem the execution
faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score a 10.
Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the plane being outside the
landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would
require discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical
impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think
that needs correcting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Of course, all this is my opinionated
interpretation of matters and should be so received.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">billglaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca- discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>At the risk of starting another downwind turn
discussion:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint
presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had for a long
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it
an automatic zero? I've felt for a long time that it should be,
yet I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely
lost interest in the airplane." It can roll anywhere, do anything,
and it doesn't affect the score, is their idea. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then
rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is
the landing zeroed? I've been called for doing so
once.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Secondly, in reading the presentation for
Intermediate, it states for the Split S: A downgrade if the entry
and exit are not at the same altitude. Seems to me to be an error
that slipped by, but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's
happened!)<G> I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret
also. Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the
list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>NSRCA 2388<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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