[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009sequencediagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

Sun Mar 1 12:15:25 AKST 2009

As Jas says

FAI is different in this regard than Masters.

In FAI there is a general rule that each roll must have a definite start and stop to the roll element. As a result in FAI the rolls must have minimal hesitation.

In AMA pattern as defined by this rule the wing needs to come down and bounce the opposite direction.  Essentially for max score meaning no downgrade for this the wing needs to hit perfectly level and immediately go the other direction. 

This is a 2pt roll....that does not mean it has 2 points it means it has 2  ½ rolls.  Count the rolls not the points.

Same issue in a 4pt roll....same issue in other figures. They are hesitation rolls. And the rolling element is the important part.

Up until P-09 the FAI (2) ½ rolls reversed had the reversal immediate as well. In the current P-09 and later the pause between the ½ rolls is defined as the length of the roll element. This is not the case in AMA pattern

We need to keep these two definitions separated. They are different.

Troy

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:59 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009sequencediagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

Actually Rex, there are 'seen' pauses in the 3 rolls in FAI, sorry. But the opposite negative snaps in F are like what this reversed 2pt is.

Not that it means anything, but I think it looks better with all the point-rolls having an equal pause.

Regards,
Jason
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Rex <mailto:trexlesh at msn.com>  

	To: NSRCA-discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

	Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 3:52 PM

	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequencediagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	Hi Gene

	This exact thing was brought up last season about the "three opposite rolls" in FAI.
	I believe the term "no perceiveable" hesitation between changing directions was used
	to cover that....  LOL  I guess that means you better hit the point before you move the
	stick the other way!  My guess is that if you are within a couple degrees of the point,
	no one could see that anyway.  You are immediately changing roll direction, and the time
	spent at the point of change is so short, you'd have to be somewhere around five degrees
	off before it was actually seen as being "off".   The slower the roll, the easier it is to see
	wing position in real time.   If you are rolling in slow roll fashion, the judge could easily see
	if wing position is off.  I guess this is all splitting hairs, because if you reverse a roll at any
	time, the wing has to stop rotation before it goes the other way, hence a hesitation....
	This could drive a guy nuts....  But in my case, who could tell?!

	Rex

________________________________

	From: gene.maurice at sgmservice.com
	To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
	Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:24:39 -0600
	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	Don't you have to stop the plane to show the second point (2 of 2) and then reverse the roll direction (Reversed)? Doesn't that "stop" create an inherent hesitation (Per Webster:  to delay momentarily : pause )? If there is no delay have you presented a point and therefore really performed a two point roll?

	Gene Maurice

	Plano, TX

	AMA 3408 NSRCA 877

	PACSS.sgmservice.com

	gene.maurice at sgmservice.com

	From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex
	Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:28 PM
	To: NSRCA-discussion
	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	You are correct Jim...  there is no hesitation between the two seperate 2/2.
	Each 2/2 has a hesitation after the half roll to inverted.  So, to put it as a 
	description of requirements, you'd have "half roll", hesitation, "half roll", NO HESITATION,
	"half roll", hesitation, "half roll"....

	Rex

________________________________

	From: jnhiller at earthlink.net
	To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
	Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:15:39 -0800
	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	George now you have me confused. I understood that there was to be NO hesitation between the two 2/2 rolls reversed. A noticeable hesitation would warrant a downgrade. PPT page 18 and RCA-33 agree on this.

	Jim Hiller

	-----Original Message-----
	From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of George W.Kennie
	Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 9:47 AM
	To: General pattern discussion
	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	Jon,

	You've been doing it correctly.  That's a list of downgrades. If there's no hesitation, it's a downgrade. 

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: richard wallace <mailto:rickwallace45 at gmail.com>  

	To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

	Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 12:14 PM

	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted onthe NSRCA site

	Thanks, all, for the feedback on these presentations - now if I could only FLY  the Masters 09 sequence... !

	BURN FUEL! (ok.... or electrons, as appropriate...)

	On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com> wrote:

	Rick,
	I want to thank you for posting these.  I read thru the Powerpoint presentation on the Masters sequence last nite, and picked up on two key points that I had completely missed.  I hadn't thought about pulling early on the start of the hourglass to maintain geometry,  and I had completely missed the fact that there is no hesitation in the two, two of two rolls opposite.  I had been practicing both manuevers incorrectly..  In fact, I would have sworn there WAS a hesitation in the rolls before I read your presentation and rechecked the rules.  Now if the weather would break so I could get more practice...

	Job well done.

	Jon Lowe 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: richard wallace <rickwallace45 at gmail.com>
	To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
	Sent: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 6:49 am
	Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2009 sequence diagrams are posted on the NSRCA site

	The current Masters seequence is posted on the NSCA website (along with all the other current sequences)  at

	http://nsrca.us/judginghome..html <http://nsrca.us/judginghome.html> 

	Click the desired AMA class link in the middle of the page to open or save the presentation.

	--  Each file is 2MB or a little less -dodwnload may take a few seconds

	 -- Might as well save it on your local computer for later reference..!

	These presentations try to capture the rulebook downgrades and some helpful tips but, as always, the current rulebook is the authority!

	Links to FAI P09 and F09 sequences and call cards are in the listing to the right of the page.

	Enjoy--!

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