[NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

Tue Jul 28 15:50:29 AKDT 2009

On of our club members had a new Park Zone SU-26m, a 15" wingspan, out this
past weekend. A falcon became very interested, started circling, and I
thought it was going to attack. Must have looked liked a pigeon.

Jay Marshall

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:01 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

I was told by a local club member, who was flying a 60-size sport  
airplane, that some kind of hawk attacked his airplane.  I didn't  
know then, but found out later, that birds of prey usually attack the  
head of their airborne target.  The guy told me he saw the hawk  
swooping down and there was a sudden cloud of feathers when the hawk  
attacked the airplane's "head".

Ron VP

On Jul 28, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Verne Koester wrote:

> Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about  
> 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings  
> looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the  
> damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time,  
> someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said "I hope his  
> buddies eat him"...
>
>
>
> Verne
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- 
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
>
>
> did that buzzard survive......
>
>
>
> From: Verne Koester <verne at twmi.rr.com>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
> I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on  
> the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I've had nine mid- 
> airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a  
> mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest.  
> Contests are the only time I'll even fly with another plane in the  
> air and that's only if it's an actual scored round. A few mid-airs  
> will do that to ya.
>
>
>
> Verne
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- 
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince"  
> Bortone
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
>
>
> Hi Verne,
>
>
>
> You are correct.  I had a collision two years ago at the Nats.  I  
> was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get  
> me time to be ready.  The main problem for the pilot after this  
> event is that we pay more attention to the other plane.  It is very  
> hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation.  It is  
> practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance.
>
>
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Verne Koester" <verne at twmi.rr.com>
> To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" <nsrca- 
> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
> From the AMA Rulebook:
>
>
>
> 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the  
> contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may  
> resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are  
> judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They  
> will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next  
> scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The  
> previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight  
> and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in  
> front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores  
> of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent  
> maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by  
> the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated  
> by the CD.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps though it's little comfort when put to use,
>
> Verne Koester
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- 
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score  
> maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid  
> a  midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to  
> happen. VBG
>
>
>
> Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all  
> remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether  
> or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred,  
> you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the  
> required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero  
> the 4-point roll. :(
>
>
>
> My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid  
> it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't  
> have to worry about it happening again. LOL
>
>
>
> John Pavlick
>
> --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM
>
> This is not a rule in pattern.  There is virtually no way to be  
> certain of
> an oncoming mid-air.  If you are flying your plane then you really  
> aren't
> going to be able to see the other plane either.  I've seen some  
> that looked
> very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that  
> happened when
> they didn't look that close.
>
> In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have  
> twice seen
> people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and  
> actually
> turn directly into the path of the other plane.  Had they just  
> stayed on
> their line they would've been fine.  I think you are much better  
> off, just
> flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens
> unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is
> virtually impossible.
>
> Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air.   
> Trying avoid
> them usually causes more problems than it solves.
>
> Arch
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of  
> Bill's Email
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>
> I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is
> mentioned.
>
> Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is
> downgraded for doing so?
>
> We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you  
> cannot
> avoid a mid-air without penalty?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion  
> mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http:// 
> lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion