[NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Dave
DaveL322 at comcast.net
Fri Jan 16 15:01:45 AKST 2009
Gray,
I'll send you some high resolution pics offline of how the Vivat/Prestige
gear is made. It is thin, narrow, and quite flexible in the vertical axis,
but very stiff torsionally (yes, it has biased CF cloth). No toe in. No
sweep. Slight arc (think Sukhoi). Very nice shiny finish out of the mold -
looks like clear coated carbon fiber - would be a shame to paint them.
On the Prestige, the wheelpants are integrated with the gear leg, so
mounting the pants mount very easily and are very durable. The pants are
lightweight fiberglass, which works very well - the glass is not as brittle
as the CF. Of the 3 sets of LG and wheelpants I have, the LG weighs 96
grams per set, and the wheel pants weigh 30 grams per set. I typically
freshen up the paint and fix cracks on the wheelpants after about 400
flights on rough grass fields.
I prioritize function over appearance, so I say no sweep - it only adds load
to the mounting structure, and if the mounting structure is in the correct
place, sweep is not needed to put the axles at the right location. The
small bit of arc adds aesthetic appeal to the gear, if straight leg stuff is
offensive.
I am not a fan of the typical 2 piece gear - where each half stops short of
the middle, and a nasty bending load is created in the center of the gear
plate (unless a spreader plate/joiner is attached between the two legs).
The Vivat/Prestige gear overlap within the fuselage, so loads are carried on
the edges of the fuse, and there is little need for the beefy gear plate.
Regards,
Dave
_____
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Gray E Fowler
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:58 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
If "swept" gear are preferred for the appearance, and impact form fit and
function, that is, there is a performace trade off to look cool, then all
who prioitize in such a manner will be unhappy with a gear set if we make
it. My priorties going forward will be:
1. Performance =stiffness, weight, twist- balanced by
2. Cost= material used, labor and cycle time
3. Cosmetics= need to look good BUT it is #3
If Cost were no issue We could make a gorgeous set of ultimate performing
gear, but cost is a large issue and if AeroSlave does not follow through it
will be because of cost. We must be able to cover our non reccurring costs
of engineering and especially molds which are very expensive. I am always a
bit hesitant with the pattern crowd and the need for the plane's components
to be prettier than the pilot or even his wife! I understand paint finish
and such but making a landing gear perfectly gorgeous when scutinized up
close may add $25 per set. Some will say this is a requirement, some will
not. This is what I am trying to figure out at the moment. Lance and I have
a big handle on the technical aspects, but things like sweep, finish etc can
kill this (from a business apsect) before we get off the ground. Swept gear
will require more molds =$$$. Almost everyone cuts a single gear into a left
and a right.
I do find all this input interesting, but Lance and I will have to figure
out how to proceed. This feedback about stiffness, bouncing, toe in etc is
great. We have prototypes performing very well, but now we need to
productionize the design.
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
"Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
01/15/2009 09:45 PM
Please respond to
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Gray, the toe in twist issue on the ES gear was definitely an issue I ran
into, at least with the taller electric version. Also, on crosswind landings
if I didn't straighten it out just right before touching down it would start
doing a sideways hoping action with the forward leg acting like a spring. I
think you may have seen this in Lubbock. This is the only set of gear I've
ever experienced this with. More ridged gear don't seem prone to this
behavior.
As to straight vs. swept, straight may be easier to fabricate as a first
attempt to get something to market and would provide interchangeability. On
the other hand, if you dork one half of your gear you still have to buy a
whole new set and there's not much you can do with the other half, unless
you have a habit of dorking gear. The swept look is most definitely nicer.
I'd go with what you think will sell the best, based on sex appeal, and will
be structurally sound. I wouldn't worry about giving the multiple gear
dorkers the ability to use either half on either side. Besides, multiple
gear dorkers will help keep you in business. :-)
Keith
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Gray E Fowler
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:57 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Anthony
What did you think about the ES gear twist? That is the wheel going toe in-
toe out hitting small bumps. ES had nothing but zero degree fibers. That is
the one design issue I am conteplating at the moment.
Also considering that all new planes are widebody that is what needs to be
addressed..BUT having a 1 continuous gear will be more weight. I am thinking
it is better to split the gear for a weight savings. If we make two pieces,
and either piece can be a left or a right, then a broken gear is only on one
side. Any advantage to that?
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
01/15/2009 04:18 PM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Graph Tech is not for us. I am sure their stuff is well suited for the IMAC
style planes that they are designed for but too heavy and way too stiff for
our use.
I went through their website and picked a gear based on dimension of the ES.
2+ ounces heavier and twice as thick with zero flex. Broke the gear out of
my Black Magic many times when hitting small holes in the runway. Rick
donated his ES gear and life has been much better.
Anthony
_____
From: jlachow at hotmail.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:59:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Anyone have any luck with the Graph Tech RC stuff? Only experience was with
some smaller electrics that worked just fine. They have carbon pants and
spinners, as well.
_____
From: tony at radiosouthrc.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:00:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Thanks, Jim. Those are $112.00 I think. about double that of the Bolly..
Not sure how that will go... but if there are no other choices.
Tony Stillman, President
Radio South, Inc.
139 Altama Connector, Box 322
Brunswick, GA 31525
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
_____
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:52 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Tony,
Luiz at Net Box Hobby carrys the CA carbon gear.
Thanks,
Jim
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
I just received conformation that BOLLY has gone out of business.
Unfortunately, this is a major supplier of CF landing gear and wheel pants.
I have been awaiting a shipment of several items, and now it does not look
like that will happen. I am working now to determine if there are any
gear/wheel pants available.
The really bad thing is that I am not sure what options we have left, other
than going with a kit/arf manufacturer's gear. Ed Skorpa dropped his gear
last year.
Tony Stillman, President
Radio South, Inc.
139 Altama Connector, Box 322
Brunswick, GA 31525
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
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