[NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was ArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem

Tue Feb 10 15:02:56 AKST 2009

I don't look at a YS engine as an investment . . . more like the "loan" you
make to one of your in-laws who "promises" to pay you back . . .

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:

> Matt - I disagree with part of your statement #1.  I like electrics and I
> love the smell of burning nitro too.
>
> One of my fondest memories is going to contests up in Ohio, Michigan and
> Indiana with Don Lowe in his old Pontiac station wagon, which had the aroma
> of castor oil, that came from the fuel that had dripped on and seeped into
> the carpet in the back.
>
> I totally agree with #2.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Matthew Frederick wrote:
>
>  I'm afraid I must take issue with two of your statements:
>> 1) I'm not afraid of electric, I just don't like it. Part of what I like
>> about the hobby is the engines, I love the smell of burning nitro in the
>> morning, smells like victory
>> 2) There's no such thing as too many YS engines to those who like them
>>
>> Matt
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell" <
>> johnferrell at earthlink.net>
>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was
>> ArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem
>>
>>
>>  It is an interesting question for sure...
>>> Can you think of any other form of aviation where empty weight is more
>>> important that Gross or take off weight?
>>> Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid of electric
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> Personally, the bad news is that the new knee joints I had installed last
>>> year are not permitting me to squat or kneel. It is tough to deal with
>>> tending an IC powered airplane with that limitation.
>>> The good news is that electrics do not appear to require the operator to
>>> squat/kneel.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately there remains the problem of recovering the investment of
>>> too many YS engines and the accompanying airplanes...
>>>
>>> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>>>
>>> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
>>> nothing." -- Edmund Burke
>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming
>>> Plug/ReceptacleProblem
>>>
>>>
>>>  I beg to differ.  The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the way
>>>>  the airplanes are weighed.  IC airplanes are weighed without fuel;
>>>>  electric airplanes are weighed with fuel (batteries) and both may no  more
>>>> than 5 kilograms.  OMG, here we go again!
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I've been at this longer than most and have known from the  beginning
>>>>> that the propulsion system is the key to winning in  Pattern competition. It
>>>>> can also be the most frustrating due to  constantly changing conditions.  I
>>>>> found that the gas engines with  spark ignition were a lot more consistent
>>>>> than glow and that  reduced the frustration. I have more recently convinced
>>>>> myself  that electric is the least frustrating.  A few folks have gone back
>>>>>  to glow after playing with electric to get more power for windy
>>>>>  conditions.  We are now getting close to getting more than enough  out of
>>>>> electric systems (3 to 4 HP?) and when that happens we won't  have these
>>>>> discussions anymore. However, before that happens, the  rules will probably
>>>>> be changed to favor IC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I've been lurking for a long time and after reading all the things
>>>>>> that one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it makes one  wonder how
>>>>>> things would be if electrics were the norm from the  beginning of powered
>>>>>> R/C models. It might go like this;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I tried it on  one
>>>>>> of my Pattern models and it works really well. "Look what it  will do;
>>>>>> 1. It has just as much power as our electric motors.
>>>>>> 2. The only batteries you need are for the flight pack, glow  igniter
>>>>>> and the electric starter if you don't like to flip by hand.
>>>>>> 3. All you have to do is pump fuel into the tank, spin the engine
>>>>>>  with the starter and fly.The tail gets a little oily, but what the  heck,
>>>>>> it's fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the radio on first  is a given.)
>>>>>> 4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car battery  around
>>>>>> to charge motor batteries."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek and  just
>>>>>> an observation. I also have too much time on my hands these  days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JJV
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" <
>>>>>> lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:50 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  A 100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make the ESC
>>>>>>> "active". Bad idea...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Marshall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of  Ron
>>>>>>> Van Putte
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:14 PM
>>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good.  I will try it.  What wattage 100 ohm resistor?  Let's see,
>>>>>>> doesn't sustained power equal voltage squared, divided by the
>>>>>>> resistance?  If so, 42 squared, divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.
>>>>>>> That's probably overkill, since the current surge is transitory.
>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>> about a 100 ohm, 10 watt resistor?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just thought of something:  With the 100 ohm resistor across the
>>>>>>> arming plug receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the batteries
>>>>>>> are plugged into the circuit?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, what about Castle Creation's statement that the "spark is your
>>>>>>> friend'?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Put a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.  Then the
>>>>>>>> capacitors in the ESC will charge without a spark as you connect
>>>>>>>> the batteries.  When you connect the arming plug, no spark.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered airplane
>>>>>>>>> owners have that I'd like to solve.  I use an arming plug to
>>>>>>>>> connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the ESC.  On initial contact of
>>>>>>>>> the arming plug with the receptacle, there's a big spark thrown.
>>>>>>>>> Eventually the contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get
>>>>>>>>> burned to the point where the electrical contact is very bad.
>>>>>>>>> Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick because (I think)
>>>>>>>>> the ESC saw what it thought was low voltage out of the battery
>>>>>>>>> that was actually due to the burned arming plug/receptacle
>>>>>>>>> contacts.  BTW, I am using high-amp Anderson Power Pole
>>>>>>>>> connectors, which are probably more susceptible to having the
>>>>>>>>> contacts burned than would Deans Ultra connectors.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have thought about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel with the
>>>>>>>>> arming plug, that would damp the initial current surge which
>>>>>>>>> causes the spark.  The capacitor could be removed before flight.
>>>>>>>>> However, I'm wondering if there's a more elegant solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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-- 

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com
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