[NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was ArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem

Ron Van Putte vanputte at cox.net
Tue Feb 10 14:54:17 AKST 2009 

Matt - I disagree with part of your statement #1.  I like electrics  
and I love the smell of burning nitro too.

One of my fondest memories is going to contests up in Ohio, Michigan  
and Indiana with Don Lowe in his old Pontiac station wagon, which had  
the aroma of castor oil, that came from the fuel that had dripped on  
and seeped into the carpet in the back.

I totally agree with #2.

Ron

On Feb 10, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Matthew Frederick wrote:

> I'm afraid I must take issue with two of your statements:
> 1) I'm not afraid of electric, I just don't like it. Part of what I  
> like about the hobby is the engines, I love the smell of burning  
> nitro in the morning, smells like victory
> 2) There's no such thing as too many YS engines to those who like them
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell"  
> <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was ArmingPlug/ 
> ReceptacleProblem
>
>
>> It is an interesting question for sure...
>> Can you think of any other form of aviation where empty weight is  
>> more important that Gross or take off weight?
>> Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid of  
>> electric technology.
>>
>> Personally, the bad news is that the new knee joints I had  
>> installed last year are not permitting me to squat or kneel. It is  
>> tough to deal with tending an IC powered airplane with that  
>> limitation.
>> The good news is that electrics do not appear to require the  
>> operator to squat/kneel.
>>
>> Unfortunately there remains the problem of recovering the  
>> investment of too many YS engines and the accompanying airplanes...
>>
>> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>>
>> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to  
>> do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
>> http://DixieNC.US
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming Plug/ 
>> ReceptacleProblem
>>
>>
>>> I beg to differ.  The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the  
>>> way  the airplanes are weighed.  IC airplanes are weighed without  
>>> fuel;  electric airplanes are weighed with fuel (batteries) and  
>>> both may no  more than 5 kilograms.  OMG, here we go again!
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been at this longer than most and have known from the   
>>>> beginning that the propulsion system is the key to winning in   
>>>> Pattern competition. It can also be the most frustrating due to   
>>>> constantly changing conditions.  I found that the gas engines  
>>>> with  spark ignition were a lot more consistent than glow and  
>>>> that  reduced the frustration. I have more recently convinced  
>>>> myself  that electric is the least frustrating.  A few folks  
>>>> have gone back  to glow after playing with electric to get more  
>>>> power for windy  conditions.  We are now getting close to  
>>>> getting more than enough  out of electric systems (3 to 4 HP?)  
>>>> and when that happens we won't  have these discussions anymore.  
>>>> However, before that happens, the  rules will probably be  
>>>> changed to favor IC.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been lurking for a long time and after reading all the  
>>>>> things that one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it  
>>>>> makes one  wonder how things would be if electrics were the  
>>>>> norm from the  beginning of powered R/C models. It might go  
>>>>> like this;
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I tried it  
>>>>> on  one of my Pattern models and it works really well. "Look  
>>>>> what it  will do;
>>>>> 1. It has just as much power as our electric motors.
>>>>> 2. The only batteries you need are for the flight pack, glow   
>>>>> igniter and the electric starter if you don't like to flip by  
>>>>> hand.
>>>>> 3. All you have to do is pump fuel into the tank, spin the  
>>>>> engine  with the starter and fly.The tail gets a little oily,  
>>>>> but what the  heck, it's fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the  
>>>>> radio on first  is a given.)
>>>>> 4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car battery   
>>>>> around to charge motor batteries."
>>>>>
>>>>> Please don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek  
>>>>> and  just an observation. I also have too much time on my hands  
>>>>> these  days.
>>>>>
>>>>> JJV
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall"  
>>>>> <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
>>>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca- 
>>>>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A 100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make  
>>>>>> the ESC
>>>>>> "active". Bad idea...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Marshall
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf  
>>>>>> Of  Ron Van Putte
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:14 PM
>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good.  I will try it.  What wattage 100 ohm resistor?  Let's see,
>>>>>> doesn't sustained power equal voltage squared, divided by the
>>>>>> resistance?  If so, 42 squared, divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.
>>>>>> That's probably overkill, since the current surge is  
>>>>>> transitory.   How
>>>>>> about a 100 ohm, 10 watt resistor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just thought of something:  With the 100 ohm resistor across the
>>>>>> arming plug receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the  
>>>>>> batteries
>>>>>> are plugged into the circuit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, what about Castle Creation's statement that the "spark is  
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> friend'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.   
>>>>>>> Then the
>>>>>>> capacitors in the ESC will charge without a spark as you connect
>>>>>>> the batteries.  When you connect the arming plug, no spark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered airplane
>>>>>>>> owners have that I'd like to solve.  I use an arming plug to
>>>>>>>> connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the ESC.  On initial  
>>>>>>>> contact of
>>>>>>>> the arming plug with the receptacle, there's a big spark  
>>>>>>>> thrown.
>>>>>>>> Eventually the contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get
>>>>>>>> burned to the point where the electrical contact is very bad.
>>>>>>>> Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick because (I think)
>>>>>>>> the ESC saw what it thought was low voltage out of the battery
>>>>>>>> that was actually due to the burned arming plug/receptacle
>>>>>>>> contacts.  BTW, I am using high-amp Anderson Power Pole
>>>>>>>> connectors, which are probably more susceptible to having the
>>>>>>>> contacts burned than would Deans Ultra connectors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have thought about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel  
>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>> arming plug, that would damp the initial current surge which
>>>>>>>> causes the spark.  The capacitor could be removed before  
>>>>>>>> flight.
>>>>>>>> However, I'm wondering if there's a more elegant solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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