[NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment

Thu Feb 5 06:51:59 AKST 2009

Sometimes the judges follow the contestant's caller. I remember when I
accidentally gave my new caller an outdated call sheet. There was no problem
until I realized that I was performing the wrong maneuvers at the wrong time
and bailed out. No "0"s until then as the judges graded on what the caller
said!

Jay Marshall 

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of billglaze
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:39 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment

What worked really well for us when judging unknowns, was when the judges
had their own caller sitting in the judges tent, right in back of them.  He
would whisper the figures, component by component, to the  judges.  Works
great, if you have the personnel.  

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ed Alt <mailto:ed_alt at hotmail.com>  

To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:24 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment

It's an added setup task for the scoring software. The way it's done in
Scale Aerobatics, the unknowns are never throw always.  When I was first
flying IMAC, the unknowns were always given out the night before.  I hear
that these days, it's not uncommon to have then handed out the morning of.
One thing about unknowns that is really not a good thing is how poor the
judging becomes if the CD doesn't assure that judges are familiar with the
unknowns beforehand. It's an added burden on contestant judges who not only
need to try to plan and prepare for their unknown, but get familiar with
another classes unknown. Your caller needs to be familiar with whatever
you've written out for instructions etc.  There are a lot of 0's with
unknowns and also a lot of 0's that get missed by judges.  

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Anthony <mailto:anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>  Romano 

To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 

Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment

What are the logistics of scoring with an Unkown?

Anthony

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:44:29 -0500
> From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment
> 
> My experience in flying and judging unknowns, locally and at a Nats, is
this:
> 
> In order to adequately judge unknowns you should have a scribe and an
aresti-caller. This person is experienced and reads ahead the elements of
each maneuver so you as a judge can stay watching the maneuver and right on
queue. 
> 
> If you put this in practice like we do in the SE IMAC region, judging the
unknowns is not a problem, and rarely more of a problem that typical known
round judging.
> 
> However, I disagree with your assessment about experienced pilots being
able to execute an unknown if only the caller is on the ball. Flying unknown
sequences is a skill that is undeveloped in pattern pilots. On paper it
looks simple enough, but in execution, it is totally different animal. I can
name pilots either way that fly so-so knowns, then fly better unknowns, and
pilots that fly GREAT knowns, and lose focus on unknowns.... (the first
"skill" that needs nourishment is the ability to truly listen and fly
exactly what the caller says and when. Memorizing an unknown then flying it,
is not a practice often used with the IMAC guys.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
rcmaster199 at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment
> 
> Unknowns are a fair idea. Most of us long timers in the sport have 
> flown most maneuvers in the book and could execute an unknown sequence 
> reasonably well if we had a caller who was on the ball.
> 
> The main problem I see with unknowns is judging them correctly. My 
> concern isn't with judges with routinely judge F3A and Masters 
> Finals....these folks have a pretty good grasp on judging nuances in 
> general, which include unknown sequences (in F3A anyway). BUT can the 
> same be said for the everyday folks who attend the contests to fly and 
> are also tapped to judge? I'm not so sure.
> 
> MattK
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jtkeiser at comcast.net
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:19 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment
> 
> Well, just think Ron, now all your competitors would be doing the same 
> - at least for one flight. Doesn't that seem more fair?
> 
>  
> 
> Jack
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Van Putte" &lt;vanputte at cox.net&gt;
> To: "General pattern discussion" 
> &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
> Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 11:16:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada 
> Eastern
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment
> 
> I'm in the Master class and I fly unknowns all the time.  Just ask my  
> caller, John Fuqua, and he'll tell you that I rarely know what's next.
> 
> Ron VP
> 
> On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Vicente=2
> 0Vince Bortone wrote:
> &gt; I also fly AMA pattern and IMAC when there is a contest close to  
> &gt; Kansas City.  I wish that I could fly IAC.  Yes, it will be  
> &gt; interesting to add unknowns to pattern.  In IMAC the class that  
> &gt; does not fly unknowns is basic.  All the rest fly unknowns.
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