[NSRCA-discussion] Why did you join the NSRCA?

Mon Feb 2 06:45:04 AKST 2009

I started flying R/C in 1954; first contest ~1955.  Biggest subject at the contest then?  Far and away, complaints about judging.  Nothing changes, does it?  Bill
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Budd Engineering 
  To: krishlan Fitzsimmons ; Matthew Frederick ; General pattern discussion 
  Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 5:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why did you join the NSRCA?

  Chris,

  Glad to contribute, I've been at this longer than most (the '79 Nats in Lincoln was my first contest), and I've pretty much seen and heard it all in that time.  I can't say that I have all the answers but I'd like to think I have a pretty good idea what the problems are.  And here's the part that may not be obvious to those who haven't had the benefit of longevity at this:  The biggest problems we have aren't new, they date back to the early days of pattern, and are systemic in nature.  Let's take judging as an example (surprise!).  In spite of the on-going efforts to "fix" judging via training, education, certification, etc — it's still a problem (and has been for a long time).  Which suggests that the basic construct of how we actually perform judging is inherently flawed.  And unless we change that construct, no amount of the "traditional" efforts to "fix" judging is going to work.  How important is this?  In my opinion, more people have left pattern due to real or perceived poor judging/judging inequities over the years than any other reason.  There are other reasons out there, but this is the biggie (again, IMHO).

  Re: Staying at our new house next weekend, yes, that is correct (and you're not imposing - I'm looking forward to it).  In fact, I'm trying to get my new garage workshop configured in case somebody needs to use it.

  Matt,

  We're not so far apart on our view of NSRCA.  In particular I've been VERY frustrated over the last several years on how utterly impossible it is to get the attention of ANYONE in NSRCA Management about how the Masters scoring at the Nats is being done incorrectly, and how simple it would be to fix it.  The message I consistently get back is, no one cares, no one wants to fix it.  I'm told that if I want to push the issue, I have to get the ear of the guy running the event, and convince him that there's a problem that needs to be fixed (it appears that he's more concerned with running the Team Selection event than with spending the time trying to understand the scoring problem).  When I try to solicit actual help from the NSRCA elected officers in this (notice I didn't say "leadership"), they beg off and tell me to work the issue with the event director (basically they don't want to risk pissing the guy off for fear he'll quit).  My efforts to resolve this with the event director have, so far, fallen on deaf ears.  He either doesn't understand the problem, or he doesn't care - since no one else is raising a fuss about it.  Fortunately, the problem I'm referencing is only (more recently anyway) with the calculation of the scores in the prelims, and I've flown well enough the past several years to make the finals by a wide enough margin to not be affected by it.  But I know that someone "on the bubble" is getting screwed, and probably didn't make the Masters finals that maybe should have.  And no one seems to care (except me).

  After a while you have to start asking yourself if it's all worth it.  When you have people who over time starting thinking their answer to that question is "I'm not sure" or "maybe it's not", you've already lost them.  It's just a matter of time before they move on to something else.  And that, unfortunately, is why people leave pattern.

  Thx, Jerry

  Budd Engineering
  jerry at buddengineering.com
  http://www.buddengineering.com

  On Feb 1, 2009, at 11:07 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:

          Jerry, 

          Thanks for joining in on this. You have the best memory of anyone I know when it comes to your memories of pattern. Good to see them brought out here. I wasn't involved back then so I have no idea. 
          And, Jon told me we are staying at your mansion, not Vics house next weekend. Is this correct. I haven't talked to you and don't want to impose. 

          Matt, 

          You may not support pattern, and that's fine. To each his own. And if you have opinions, please tell your district VP and ask him to bring it up in the next board meeting. Or better yet, come to the nats, and attend the board meeting. It's quite interesting. I like to call it the" bored" meeting though.. lol.
          And as always, if you want to voice your opinion, and make it matter, contact an officer of the Nsrca. It's our job to listen and take it to the "bored" meetings. 
          Matt, it is to my unsatisfaction that I am not making the K-factors interesting enough that that alone doesn't make you want to rejoin. How about submitting info on your own? Anyone can!!! I'm shocked that someone as vocal as you (and I don't know you) doesn't rejoin just to support pattern. Heck, I am an Imac member and I have never flown an Imac flight. But I support their cause. And don't want to see them fail. 

          Chris 

          --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Budd Engineering <jerry at buddengineering.com> wrote:

            From: Budd Engineering <jerry at buddengineering.com>
            Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why did you join the NSRCA?
            To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
            Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:51 PM

            On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Matthew Frederick wrote:

              It may very well be in pattern's interest that the NSRCA remain healthy, but I am my own driving force. I don't fly to win the district championship, and I don't attend the Nats at this point. Before the NSRCA came around, there were still AMA rules for pattern. Contests were held. I could make an argument that the NSRCA in it's current form is the reason that pattern struggles. I'm not saying that, but evidence exists to support the claim. 

            I'd be interested in hearing that argument.  Really - I would.  I have my own ideas as to what the problem is, but it's always good to get another opinion.

              I tried to go read the history of the NSRCA to find out exactly what year the organization was formed, but the link to the NSRCA history article is not working. 

            IIRC it was around 1973.  Rhett Miller was the first president.  Long before the fall-off in pattern started.  I joined in ~ 1982 or 83, Larry Ott was president then.  The K-Factor was about 8 half-sized pages written on a typewriter and copied off on a Xerox machine.  What few illustrations it had were hand drawn.  I think dues were $20 or something like that.  I joined because it was the only way to know what was going on around the country (my phone bills were a lot higher back them).

              All I know is when I first started in pattern in 1990, the NSRCA was hardly around, and I frequently attended contests with 40 - 50 contestants.

            True enough, the contests were a lot bigger back then.  And then the advent of the turn-around patterns into the AMA classes occurred (1989).  Almost overnight participation dropped to about half, and it's never recovered from there.  Anybody remember the divide in the membership in the 86-87 timeframe about the AMA classes going turn-around?  There was a guy on the AMA Contest Board from Kansas named Jim Mowrey who was ready to succeed from the union (and take half the membership with him) if that happened.  I don't know where he disappeared to but I'm not so sure he wasn't right.

              I've been holding my thoughts on this, but I think it needs to be said: the thought of the AMA allowing the NSRCA to make changes to schedules or rules without going through the AMA rules process scares me. Although I have been an NSRCA member for 2 years, I never once felt that the NSRCA leadership was really looking out for my interests. If the rules proposal comes up to allow the NSRCA to have that level of control, I will vehemently oppose it with the AMA, and encourage all of my friends to do the same.

              Matt 

            Actually, I've been wondering the opposite.  What is the added value in having AMA involved in the process?  Or lets put it another way - do you really need an AMA Sanction to hold a contest?  I submit that if the contest site is at an AMA charted club field the answer is no, the sanction is of no added value.

            Keith Hoard, here's a good one for you to stir the pot with.  What say you?  : )

            Jerry

            Budd Engineering
            jerry at buddengineering.com
            http://www.buddengineering.com
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