<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I started flying R/C in 1954; first contest ~1955.
Biggest subject at the contest then? Far and away, complaints about
judging. Nothing changes, does it? Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jerry@buddengineering.com
href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">Budd Engineering</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan Fitzsimmons</A> ; <A
title=mjfrederick@cox.net href="mailto:mjfrederick@cox.net">Matthew
Frederick</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 02, 2009 5:03
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why did
you join the NSRCA?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Chris,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Glad to contribute, I've been at this longer than most (the '79 Nats in
Lincoln was my first contest), and I've pretty much seen and heard it all in
that time. I can't say that I have all the answers but I'd like to think
I have a pretty good idea what the problems are. And here's the part
that may not be obvious to those who haven't had the benefit of longevity at
this: The biggest problems we have aren't new, they date back to the
early days of pattern, and are systemic in nature. Let's take judging as
an example (surprise!). In spite of the on-going efforts to "fix"
judging via training, education, certification, etc — it's still a
problem (and has been for a long time). Which suggests that the basic
construct of how we actually perform judging is inherently flawed. And
unless we change that construct, no amount of the "traditional" efforts to
"fix" judging is going to work. How important is this? In my
opinion, more people have left pattern due to real or perceived poor
judging/judging inequities over the years than any other reason. There
are other reasons out there, but this is the biggie (again, IMHO).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Re: Staying at our new house next weekend, yes, that is correct (and
you're not imposing - I'm looking forward to it). In fact, I'm trying to
get my new garage workshop configured in case somebody needs to use it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We're not so far apart on our view of NSRCA. In particular I've
been VERY frustrated over the last several years on how utterly impossible it
is to get the attention of ANYONE in NSRCA Management about how the Masters
scoring at the Nats is being done incorrectly, and how simple it would be to
fix it. The message I consistently get back is, no one cares, no one
wants to fix it. I'm told that if I want to push the issue, I have to
get the ear of the guy running the event, and convince him that there's a
problem that needs to be fixed (it appears that he's more concerned with
running the Team Selection event than with spending the time trying to
understand the scoring problem). When I try to solicit actual help from
the NSRCA elected officers in this (notice I didn't say "leadership"),
they beg off and tell me to work the issue with the event director (basically
they don't want to risk pissing the guy off for fear he'll quit). My
efforts to resolve this with the event director have, so far, fallen on deaf
ears. He either doesn't understand the problem, or he doesn't care -
since no one else is raising a fuss about it. Fortunately, the problem
I'm referencing is only (more recently anyway) with the calculation of the
scores in the prelims, and I've flown well enough the past several years to
make the finals by a wide enough margin to not be affected by it. But I
know that someone "on the bubble" is getting screwed, and probably didn't make
the Masters finals that maybe should have. And no one seems to care
(except me).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>After a while you have to start asking yourself if it's all worth it.
When you have people who over time starting thinking their answer to
that question is "I'm not sure" or "maybe it's not", you've already lost them.
It's just a matter of time before they move on to something else.
And that, unfortunately, is why people leave pattern.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thx, Jerry</DIV>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>Budd Engineering</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">jerry@buddengineering.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.buddengineering.com">http://www.buddengineering.com</A></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 1, 2009, at 11:07 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<TABLE style="POSITION: static" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>Jerry, <BR><BR>Thanks for joining in on this. You have
the best memory of anyone I know when it comes to your memories of
pattern. Good to see them brought out here. I wasn't involved back
then so I have no idea. <BR>And, Jon told me we are staying at your
mansion, not Vics house next weekend. Is this correct. I haven't
talked to you and don't want to impose. <BR><BR>Matt, <BR><BR>You may
not support pattern, and that's fine. To each his own. And if you have
opinions, please tell your district VP and ask him to bring it up in
the next board meeting. Or better yet, come to the nats, and attend
the board meeting. It's quite interesting. I like to call it the"
bored" meeting though.. lol.<BR>And as always, if you want to voice
your opinion, and make it matter, contact an officer of the Nsrca.
It's our job to listen and take it to the "bored" meetings. <BR>Matt,
it is to my unsatisfaction that I am not making the K-factors
interesting enough that that alone doesn't make you want to rejoin.
How about submitting info on your own? Anyone can!!! I'm shocked that
someone as vocal as you (and I don't know you) doesn't rejoin just to
support pattern. Heck, I am an Imac member and I have never flown an
Imac flight. But I support their cause. And don't want to see them
fail. <BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf size=3>Chris
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 2/1/09, Budd Engineering
<I><<A
href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">jerry@buddengineering.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
Budd Engineering <<A
href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">jerry@buddengineering.com</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why did you join the NSRCA?<BR>To: "General
pattern discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:51 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1725581702>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Matthew Frederick wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It may very well be in pattern's interest
that the NSRCA remain healthy, but I am my own driving force. I
don't fly to win the district championship, and I don't attend the
Nats at this point. Before the NSRCA came around, there were still
AMA rules for pattern. Contests were held. I could make an
argument that the NSRCA in it's current form is the reason that
pattern struggles. I'm not saying that, but evidence exists
to support the claim. </FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I'd be interested in hearing that argument. Really - I
would. I have my own ideas as to what the problem is, but it's
always good to get another opinion.</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I tried to go read the history of the NSRCA
to find out exactly what year the organization was formed, but the
link to the NSRCA history article is not working.
</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>IIRC it was around 1973. Rhett Miller was the first
president. Long before the fall-off in pattern started.
I joined in ~ 1982 or 83, Larry Ott was president then.
The K-Factor was about 8 half-sized pages written on a
typewriter and copied off on a Xerox machine. What few
illustrations it had were hand drawn. I think dues were $20 or
something like that. I joined because it was the only way to
know what was going on around the country (my phone bills were a lot
higher back them).</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>All I know is when I first started in
pattern in 1990, the NSRCA was hardly around, and I frequently
attended contests with 40 - 50 contestants.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>True enough, the contests were a lot bigger back then.
And then the advent of the turn-around patterns into the AMA
classes occurred (1989). Almost overnight participation
dropped to about half, and it's never recovered from there.
Anybody remember the divide in the membership in the 86-87
timeframe about the AMA classes going turn-around? There was a
guy on the AMA Contest Board from Kansas named Jim Mowrey who was
ready to succeed from the union (and take half the membership with
him) if that happened. I don't know where he disappeared to
but I'm not so sure he wasn't right.</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I've been holding my thoughts on this,
but I think it needs to be said: the thought of the AMA allowing
the NSRCA to make changes to schedules or rules without going
through the AMA rules process scares me. Although I have been an
NSRCA member for 2 years, I never once felt that the NSRCA
leadership was really looking out for my interests. If the rules
proposal comes up to allow the NSRCA to have that level of
control, I will vehemently oppose it with the AMA, and
encourage all of my friends to do the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Matt</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Actually, I've been wondering the opposite. What is the
added value in having AMA involved in the process? Or lets put
it another way - do you really need an AMA Sanction to
hold a contest? I submit that if the contest site is at an AMA
charted club field the answer is no, the sanction is of no added
value.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Keith Hoard, here's a good one for you to stir the pot with.
What say you? : )</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jerry</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>Budd Engineering</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>jerry@buddengineering.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.buddengineering.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.buddengineering.com</A></DIV></DIV></DIV><PRE>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing
list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>