[NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?
Phil Spelt
chuenkan at comcast.net
Sun Aug 2 16:50:26 AKDT 2009
Good!!!!!
At 05:23 PM 8/2/2009, you wrote:
><SNIP><SNIP>
>As I said, the FAI is much like the United Nations... USA has just as much
>say about how the FAI is run as we do the United Nations. Many on the EC
>are sick of it and want to try anything to get away from it...
>
>Tony Stillman, President
>Radio South, Inc.
>139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>Brunswick, GA 31525
>1-800-962-7802
>www.radiosouthrc.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
>Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:44 AM
>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?
>
>Nothing is ever this easy. The US is represented as a country at the
>FAI by the NAA, which is the National sporting body in the US for aero
>related activities. They represent all aero sports from model
>airplanes to hanggliding, and everything in between. As I understand
>it, a country can be represented to the FAI either by a National body
>such as the NAA, OR up to three associates, such as AMA and a
>hanggliding association. NAA would have to cease to exist, be
>expelled, or agree to only be an associate member for AMA to break out.
> I don't see that happening. How the FAI membership fee for the US is
>split up by the NAA affiliates (of which AMA is one), I don't know.
>Tony can probably get that answer. I do know that NAA is (or at least
>was) represented at the AMA executive council meetings.
>
>Here is a link on what can go wrong if countries don't have a single
>organization such as the NAA representing them:
>
>http://wingstaiwan.com/?p=155
>
>Note: It would appear that Taiwan has fixed their FAI issues since the
>above link was written.
>
>Here are the member countries from the FAI website:
>
>http://www.fai.org/fai_members/
>
>Countries air listed by type from 1 to 10, along with associate and
>temporary memberships. According to this website, the US appears to be
>the only level 1 country. There are a couple of level 2's, France and
>Germany. I couldn't find anything th
>at described how levels are
>determined.
>
>Links to the FAI constitution and bylaws are here:
>
>http://www.fai.org/documents/constitution
>
>They describe how countries are represented at the FAI.
>
>If AMA dropped out of the NAA representation to the FAI, we would no
>longer be able to compete in world championships. NSRCA is three steps
>removed from the FAI: NSRCA>AMA>NAA>FAI.
>
>Jon Lowe
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41 pm
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A.
>would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell
>the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we
>need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think
>again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and
>France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the
>difference?
>
>
>Ron VP
>
>
>On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote:
>
>
> > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been >
>looking
>
> > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays >
>more
>
> > than all other countries! =2
>0We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level >
>2's and
>
> > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less >
>than the
>
> > USA.... Not fair at all!
>
> >
>
> > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to >
>remember
>
> > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That >
>helps to
>
> > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and >
>setting up
>
> > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, >
>Ice,
>
> > etc...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony Stillman, President
>
> > Radio South, Inc.
>
> > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> > Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> > 1-800-962-7802
>
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >
>Fuqua
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM
>
> > To: 'General pattern discussion'
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> >
>
> > Tony
>
> > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the >
>number of
>
> > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones >
>that go
>
> > to WCs or other FAI
> events.
>
> >
>
> > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers >
>dropping by?
>
> > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for >
>modeling
>
> > purposes??
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM
>
> > To: 'General pattern discussion'
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> >
>
> > Bill:
>
> > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. >
>Many VP's
>
> > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about
>
> > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership >
>competes
>
> > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we >
>have to
>
> > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent >
>the USA in
>
> > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition >
>department at HQ
>
> > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds >
>to the
>
> > overall cost of AMA.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it >
>with
>
> > other council mem
>bers that just see it as a cost we could eliminate >
>as 99%
>
> > of the membership does not want it...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony Stillman, President
>
> >
>
> > Radio South, Inc.
>
> >
>
> > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> >
>
> > Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> >
>
> > 1-800-962-7802
>
> >
>
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill >
>Glaze
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM
>
> > To: General pattern discussion
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony:
>
> >
>
> > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that >
>you're a
>
> > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in >
>this
>
> > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!<G>) when hand->
>launch
>
> > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed >
>demos.
>
> > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name.
>
> >
>
> > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > =0
>D
>it seems
>
> > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even >
>belonging to the
>
> > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can >
>be handled
>
> > by other means.)
>
> >
>
> > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. >
>But, it
>
> > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least >
>check and
>
> > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on >
>sport
>
> > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't
>
> > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it >
>during
>
> > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!)
>
> >
>
> > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the >
>Nationals; I'll
>
> > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not >
>to beat a
>
> > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their
>
> > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the >
>various SIGS.
>
> > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is >
>that one of
>
> > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition.
> In
>
> > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or >
>so I see
>
> > it.
>
> >
>=0
>A
> > Bill Glaze
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> >
>
> > From: Tony <mailto:tony at radiosouthrc.com>
>
> >
>
> > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion'
>
> > <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> >
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM
>
> >
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
>
> > 2010?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > John:
>
> > It is a tough crowd!! LOL.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > Bill:
>
> > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end.
>
> > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does >
>support
>
> > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up
>
> > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The >
>NATS
>
> > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when >
>we can.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > Tony Stillman, President
>
> >
>
> > Radio South, Inc.
>
> >
>
> > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> >
>
> > Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> >
>
> > 1-800-962-7802
>
> >
>
> > www.
>radiosouthrc.com
>
> >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >
>Pavlick
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM
>
> > To: General pattern discussion
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
>
> > 2010?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > Tony,
>
> >
>
> > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > John Pavlick
>
> >
>
> > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > From: Bill Glaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net>
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
>
> > 2010?
>
> > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM
>
> >
>
> > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are
>
> > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the >
>AMA
>
> > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and >
>eliminate
>
> > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could >
>support
>
> > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (
>Upkeep on >
>the site,
>
> > etc. as well as running the general association.)
>
> >
>
> > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and
>
> > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this
>
> > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of >
>where I am, I
>
> > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some >
>others, who are
>
> > coming from further.
>
> >
>
> > Bill Glaze
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> >
>
> > From: Ed Alt
>
> > <http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com>
>
> >
>
> > To: 'General pattern discussion'
>
> > <http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca->
>discussion at lists.nsrca.o
>
> > rg>
>
> >
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM
>
> >
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the
>
> > Nats in 2010?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-)
>
> > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend >
>practice. Why
>
> > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have >
>access to a
>
> > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other wor
>ds, who >
>cares about
>
> > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority >
>have
>
> > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe >
>Lachowski
>
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM
>
> > To: NSRCA Discussion List
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
>
> > 2010?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about >
>other AMA
>
> > membership complaining about the site not being available for their >
>use. You
>
> > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the >
>AMA site
>
> > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been >
>shortened
>
> > in length.
>
> >
>
> > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. >
>I've heard
>
> > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS >
>only in the
>
> > future.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700
>
> > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com
>
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > Subjec
>t: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> >
>
> > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut >
>costs. I
>
> > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, >
>heresay,
>
> > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the >
>nats
>
> > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. >
>Wasn't
>
> > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we >
>all paid
>
> > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. >
>Wait till
>
> > they see entry's decline.
>
> >
>
> > Chris
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> > To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM
>
> >
>
> > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the >
>NATS to a 2
>
> > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are >
>together, HQ
>
> > can put all costs into one effort. I
>f they are all split up, Each >
>group
>
> > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't >
>send a
>
> > group of people to every site.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony Stillman, President
>
> >
>
> > Radio South, Inc.
>
> >
>
> > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> >
>
> > Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> >
>
> > 1-800-962-7802
>
> >
>
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >
>Taylor
>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM
>
> > To: General pattern discussion
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
>2010?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It was done, It was called NPAC
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tim
>
> >
>
> > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > From: Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net>
>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
>
> > 2010?
>
> > To: " General pattern discussion "
>
> > <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM
>
> >
>
> > Why not allow the SIGS20to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not >
>need to
>
> > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon >
>knows what
>
> > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. >
>Why tie
>
> > soaring and FF together and so on??
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Matt:
>
> > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The >
>problem
>
> > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >
>require
>
> > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very >
>difficult to
>
> > actually find places that can handle this group.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tony Stillman, President
>
> >
>
> > Radio South, Inc.
>
> >
>
> > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> >
>
> > Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> >
>
> > 1-800-962-7802
>
> >
>
> > www.radiosouthrc.com <http://www.radiosouthrc.com/>
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > <http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA->
>discussion at lists.nsrca.o=C
>2
>
> > rg>
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> > <http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > <http://mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> > <http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite >
>sports pics.
>
> > Check it out.
>
> > <http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?>
>ocid=TXT_TAGLM_
>
> > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports>
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > <http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA->
>discussion at lists.nsrca.o
>
> > rg>
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org
>/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> > <http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>_______________________________________________
>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets.
Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc.
URL: http://www.kcrctn.com
AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177
My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/
(865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20090803/89669538/attachment.html>
More information about the NSRCA-discussion
mailing list