[NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?
Jon Lowe
jonlowe at aol.com
Sun Aug 2 05:44:40 AKDT 2009
Nothing is ever this easy. The US is represented as a country at the
FAI by the NAA, which is the National sporting body in the US for aero
related activities. They represent all aero sports from model
airplanes to hanggliding, and everything in between. As I understand
it, a country can be represented to the FAI either by a National body
such as the NAA, OR up to three associates, such as AMA and a
hanggliding association. NAA would have to cease to exist, be
expelled, or agree to only be an associate member for AMA to break out.
I don't see that happening. How the FAI membership fee for the US is
split up by the NAA affiliates (of which AMA is one), I don't know.
Tony can probably get that answer. I do know that NAA is (or at least
was) represented at the AMA executive council meetings.
Here is a link on what can go wrong if countries don't have a single
organization such as the NAA representing them:
http://wingstaiwan.com/?p=155
Note: It would appear that Taiwan has fixed their FAI issues since the
above link was written.
Here are the member countries from the FAI website:
http://www.fai.org/fai_members/
Countries air listed by type from 1 to 10, along with associate and
temporary memberships. According to this website, the US appears to be
the only level 1 country. There are a couple of level 2's, France and
Germany. I couldn't find anything th
at described how levels are
determined.
Links to the FAI constitution and bylaws are here:
http://www.fai.org/documents/constitution
They describe how countries are represented at the FAI.
If AMA dropped out of the NAA representation to the FAI, we would no
longer be able to compete in world championships. NSRCA is three steps
removed from the FAI: NSRCA>AMA>NAA>FAI.
Jon Lowe
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?
I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A.
would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell
the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we
need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think
again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and
France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the
difference?
Ron VP
On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote:
> Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been >
looking
> into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays >
more
> than all other countries! =2
0We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level >
2's and
> German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less >
than the
> USA.... Not fair at all!
>
> The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to >
remember
> that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That >
helps to
> offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and >
setting up
> and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, >
Ice,
> etc...
>
>
>
> Tony Stillman, President
> Radio South, Inc.
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
> Brunswick, GA 31525
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >
Fuqua
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM
> To: 'General pattern discussion'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
>
> Tony
> Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the >
number of
> AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones >
that go
> to WCs or other FAI
events.
>
> And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers >
dropping by?
> Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for >
modeling
> purposes??
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM
> To: 'General pattern discussion'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
>
> Bill:
> I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. >
Many VP's
> have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about
> competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership >
competes
> officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we >
have to
> pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent >
the USA in
> FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition >
department at HQ
> who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds >
to the
> overall cost of AMA.
>
>
>
> Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it >
with
> other council mem
bers that just see it as a cost we could eliminate >
as 99%
> of the membership does not want it...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tony Stillman, President
>
> Radio South, Inc.
>
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> 1-800-962-7802
>
> www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill >
Glaze
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
>
>
>
> Tony:
>
> I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that >
you're a
> voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in >
this
> hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!<G>) when hand->
launch
> gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed >
demos.
> And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name.
>
> But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > =0
D
it seems
> to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even >
belonging to the
> AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can >
be handled
> by other means.)
>
> Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. >
But, it
> seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least >
check and
> see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on >
sport
> flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't
> consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it >
during
> October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!)
>
> But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the >
Nationals; I'll
> bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not >
to beat a
> dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their
> responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the >
various SIGS.
> (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is >
that one of
> the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition.
In
> fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or >
so I see
> it.
>
=0
A
> Bill Glaze
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Tony <mailto:tony at radiosouthrc.com>
>
> To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion'
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
> 2010?
>
> >
> John:
> It is a tough crowd!! LOL.
>
> >
> Bill:
> I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end.
> However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does >
support
> it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely.
>
> >
> The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up
> and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The >
NATS
> does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when >
we can.
>
> >
> Tony Stillman, President
>
> Radio South, Inc.
>
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> 1-800-962-7802
>
> www.
radiosouthrc.com
>
> > ________________________________
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >
Pavlick
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
> 2010?
>
> >
> Tony,
>
> And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL
>
>
>
> John Pavlick
>
> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Bill Glaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
> 2010?
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM
>
> Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are
> inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the >
AMA
> should limit their membership to only include those locals, and >
eliminate
> all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could >
support
> the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (
Upkeep on >
the site,
> etc. as well as running the general association.)
>
> Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and
> about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this
> "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of >
where I am, I
> readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some >
others, who are
> coming from further.
>
> Bill Glaze
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ed Alt
> <http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com>
>
> To: 'General pattern discussion'
> <http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca->
discussion at lists.nsrca.o
> rg>
>
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the
> Nats in 2010?
>
> >
> I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-)
> The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend >
practice. Why
> are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have >
access to a
> flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other wor
ds, who >
cares about
> the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority >
have
> exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies.
>
> >
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe >
Lachowski
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM
> To: NSRCA Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
> 2010?
>
> >
> It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about >
other AMA
> membership complaining about the site not being available for their >
use. You
> would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the >
AMA site
> being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been >
shortened
> in length.
>
> If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. >
I've heard
> rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS >
only in the
> future.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700
> From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subjec
t: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
>
> This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut >
costs. I
> am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, >
heresay,
> but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the >
nats
> takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. >
Wasn't
> the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we >
all paid
> for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. >
Wait till
> they see entry's decline.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM
>
> That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the >
NATS to a 2
> week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are >
together, HQ
> can put all costs into one effort. I
f they are all split up, Each >
group
> would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't >
send a
> group of people to every site.
>
>
>
> Tony Stillman, President
>
> Radio South, Inc.
>
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> 1-800-962-7802
>
> www.radiosouthrc.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >
Taylor
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >
2010?
>
>
>
> It was done, It was called NPAC
>
>
>
> Tim
>
> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in
> 2010?
> To: " General pattern discussion "
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM
>
> Why not allow the SIGS20to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not >
need to
> share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon >
knows what
> venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. >
Why tie
> soaring and FF together and so on??
>
>
> Tony wrote:
>
> Matt:
> Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The >
problem
> is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >
require
> another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very >
difficult to
> actually find places that can handle this group.
>
>
>
>
>
> Tony Stillman, President
>
> Radio South, Inc.
>
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>
> Brunswick, GA 31525
>
> 1-800-962-7802
>
> www.radiosouthrc.com <http://www.radiosouthrc.com/>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
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