[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!

Ed Alt ed_alt at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 4 08:12:45 AKDT 2008


That's correct Matt, 10 mv.

Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <rcmaster199 at aol.com>
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!


> Ed,
>
> If I remember correctly, your regs output precision is 10 millivolts, 
> right?
>
> "Tuning" was just a matter of getting the outputs to read the same voltage 
> to the second decimal place, during set-up. This was super simple to 
> actually do. It's a fine product and a great value
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:22 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!
>
> Wayne:
> The regulators not being matched is the cause, and
> it's the reason I began producing Tech-Aero regulators in the first place. 
> There was nothing on the market that you could consistently match output
> voltages precisely enough in order to balance the current draw from 
> separate
> packs.
>
> Ed
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From:
>  Wayne Galligan
>
>  To: General pattern discussion
>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:08
>  AM
>  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
>  2-Its a miracle!!!
>
>
>  Ed or Jim O.,
>  I am running dual 1500 mil 6v NiMh packs in
>   my Ultimate. I am using 2 of the 6v regulated Miracle switches by MPI. I
>  find that one pack is consistently lower after two or three flights. 
> Could it be that the regulators are not matched and one draws more then 
> the
>   other one? Could be a bad bat
> tery I'll have to remove and test. They seem to
>   use about the same amount of mil amps but one is lower in voltage then 
> the
>   other. I use a 1amp load when testing after each flight and stop flying
>  when the voltage drops to 5.8v loaded.
>  Thanks
>  Wayne
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From:
>    Ed Alt
>
>    To: General pattern
>    discussion
>    Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:32
>    AM
>    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
>    2-Its a miracle!!!
>
>
>    Keith:
>    That setup works well. I refer to it as a
>    hot standby, with details covered in a tech tip on the Tech-Aero
>    website. I prefer a different approach, where you just split the
>     battery capacity equally between two packs, each with its own 
> regulator. The
>     regulators must be precisely matched in output voltage setting to 
> allow then
>     to both actively share the load simultaneously. You can make a very
>     light setup with this and there are several advantages to it. First, 
> you can
>     check every flight to see that each battery is being used as expected, 
> which
>     is very important to know. Second, you double your peak load capacity 
> under
>     load. A single 5A regulator such as the JAICCIO or the Tech-Aero can
>     handle t
> he load in a pattern airplane just fine, but it's also good to know
>     that you can have two 5A regulators online at once, providing a 10A 
> peak
>    current capability.
>    The Tech-Tip on how this all works is at 
> http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm
>    Ed
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From:
>      Keith
>      Black
>      To: General pattern
>      discussion
>      Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
>      10:33 PM
>      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
>      2-Its a miracle!!!
>
>
>      What I've done is have two batteries and two
>       regulators, one regulator at 5.7 volts and one at 5.3 volts (or any
>       voltage lower). On the higher voltage regulator I connect my primary
>       battery, say a 2000 mah five cell or Lithium. On the lower voltage
>      regulator I connect the smallest battery I can buy, say a
>      750 Lipo that weighs less than an ounce.
>      Since the larger battery is hooked
>       to a regulator that outputs a higher voltage all drain comes from 
> the
>       primary battery and nothing is sucked from the smaller battery 
> unless the
>      main battery drops below 5.3 volts (or fails).
>      =2
> 0    This works great and when recharging the
>      smaller battery seldom needs any recharge at all.
>      I spoke to Jim Oddino before doing this and
>       confirmed that the lower voltage battery would not suck voltage from 
> the
>      larger battery since it was going through his regulator (Jaccio
>      regulator).
>      This setup has worked great for me and even
>      saved a plane when my primary battery came loose and disconnected
>      once!
>      Keith Black
>
>        ----- Original Message -----
>        From:
>        vicenterc at comcast.net
>        To: General pattern
>        discussion ; 'General pattern
>        discussion'
>        Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
>        11:23 AM
>        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>        Part 2-Its a miracle!!!
>
>
>        Correct, I still use separate regulators for each
>        battery. This system is smart that isolates the bad battery if
>        something goes wrong. In this way, the bad battery won't
>        drain the good one. The LED in the receiver tells you if the
>        battery has been isolated. --
> Vicente20"Vince" Bortone
>        --------------
>          Original message --------------
> From: "Jay Marshall" &lt;lightfoot at sc.rr.com&gt;
>
>
>
>
>
>          As I read the
>           literature, the dual battery setup is designed to provide a 
> heavier
>           buss for more current. It does not solve the problem of a failed
>           battery(s). This could effectively add even more drain. The 
> ideal
>           setup still seems to be dual battery packs with dual regulators, 
> or
>          some other means to isolate a failed pack.
>
>
> Jay
>          Marshall
>          -----Original
>          Message-----
> From:
>          nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>           [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>          vicenterc at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03,
>          2008 11:44 AM
> To:
>          General pattern d iscuss
>          ion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>          Part 2-Its a miracle!!!
>
>          Gray,
>
>
>          Yes, high
>           drain could have been the problem. Since the plane is in good
>  20        condition probably you can check. I think you should consider
>           using two batteries of your preference. I starting to use the
>           9100 receiver that already has two power inputs. Check details
>          here:
>
>
> 
> http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100
>
>
>
>          --
> Vicente "Vince"
>          Bortone
>
>
>            -------------- Original message
>            --------------
> From: Gray E Fowler &lt;gfowler at raytheon.com&gt;
>
>
> Vicente
>
>
> The Robbe charger
>             has a setting for soft peak, which is to be used for NiMH. 
> This is
>             what I had. I cycled twice before using this new battery..what 
> I
>             remember was getting about 1300 Mah from this 1450 mah pack. I 
> think
>            there may be a "high drain" problem on the plane in
>            addition.
>
>
>
> Gray
>            Fowler
> Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
> Radomes and
>            Specialty Apertures
> Technical Staff Composites Engineer
>            ing
> Raytheon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =0
> A                  vicenterc at comcast.net
>
> Sent by:
>                  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>
> 09/03/2008
>                  09:42 AM
>
>
>
>
>                        Please
>                        respond to
> General pattern discussion
>                        &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                        To
>
>                        General
>                        pattern discussion
>                        &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
>
>
>
>                        cc
>
>
>
>                        Subject
>
>                        Re:
>                        [NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a
>                        miracle!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gray,
>
> Yes, that
>            is good news. Clear
> ly the battery was the problem. I had
>             heard that some chargers get a "false peak" and stop charging 
> when
>             the battery is not really fully charged. I wonder if this was
>            the problem.
>
> --
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gray E
>            Fowler &lt;gfowler at raytheon.com&gt;
>
> Lance and I
>             went out and found the plane right where it was supposed to 
> be. Do
>             not know how I missed it the first day, so I am going to say 
> that
>            someone went into the woods Monday night and moved it
>            .
>
> What is
>             amazing in the minimal damage the plane has considering it 
> went
>             straig ht in from 200 feet, albeit at a slow speed. The 
> horrible
>             reverbed cracking sound Keith and I heard was the carbon fiber 
> wing
>             tube breaking. Both wings have limited leading edge damage, 
> the stab
>             has a golfball size divot on the R LE, an easy to repair crack 
> in
>             the fuse (buckle failure) behind one wing and a little nose 
> ring
>            area damage. That is all.
>
> The
> battery
>             pack had broken the 3/8 bals a stic ks on impact that were 
> bonded
>             into place (my battery packs are not "removeable" per say) and 
> the
>             battey pack was on the ground at the nose of the plane. The 
> plane
>             was standing vertical on the undamage spinner being held up by
>             the tree branches. Once we got home we hooked eveything up and
>            of course it all worked fine. Knowing that the battery pack
>             essentially had the same charge as when the plane went in, 
> Lance
>             took the battery pack home for diagnostics. Using the Robbe
>             charger he cycled the1450 mah &nbs p;pack down....it read 80
>             mah. He then charged it and it read 1000 mah. Anthony 
> described a
>             NiMH "brown out" and that is starting to make alot of sense. 6
>             volt packNiMH , drained does not just die like a 4.8 volt 
> NiCad.
>             Also an important note is I now think the plane was going in 
> and out
>             of PCM lock. When I tested PCM lock the throttle did cut, but 
> not to
>             low idle. It cut to about 20% throttle
> (programming error), hence
>             the pulsing of the throttle that I exper ienced. If this 
> diagnosis
>             is correct then it is a testament to using PCM as I was able 
> to fly
>             the plane for 45 seconds before impact...had I been closer 
> when the
>             problem started I may have even been able to score a "10" FAI
>             landing (not really-I would have gone for the grass instead of 
> the
>            runway).
> Anyw ay I am
>             sending the entire radio off for examination, try to see why 
> the
>            battery was so low, and fix the plane for spring.
>
>
> Thanks for the ideas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gray
>            Fowler
> Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
> Radomes and
>            Specialty Apertures
> Technical Staff Composites
>            Engineering
> Raytheon _______________________________________________
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