[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!

rcmaster199 at aol.com rcmaster199 at aol.com
Thu Sep 4 08:07:54 AKDT 2008


Ed,

If I remember correctly, your regs output precision is 10 millivolts, 
right?

"Tuning" was just a matter of getting the outputs to read the same 
voltage to the second decimal place, during set-up. This was super 
simple to actually do. It's a fine product and a great value

Matt



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:22 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!

Wayne:
The regulators not being matched is the cause, and
it's the reason I began producing Tech-Aero regulators in the first 
place. 
There was nothing on the market that you could consistently match 
output
voltages precisely enough in order to balance the current draw from 
separate
packs.
 
Ed

  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Wayne Galligan

  To: General pattern discussion

  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:08
  AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
  2-Its a miracle!!!


  Ed or Jim O.,
   
  I am running dual 1500 mil 6v NiMh packs in
   my Ultimate.  I am using 2 of the 6v regulated Miracle switches by 
MPI. I
  find that one pack is consistently lower after two or three flights. 
   Could it be that the regulators are not matched and one draws more 
then the
   other one? Could be a bad bat
tery I'll have to remove and test. They 
seem to
   use about the same amount of mil amps but one is lower in voltage 
then the
   other.  I use a 1amp load when testing after each flight and stop 
flying
  when the voltage drops to 5.8v loaded.
   
  Thanks
  Wayne

    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Ed Alt

    To: General pattern
    discussion
    Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:32
    AM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
    2-Its a miracle!!!


    Keith:
    That setup works well.  I refer to it as a
    hot standby, with details covered in a tech tip on the Tech-Aero
    website.  I prefer a different approach, where you just split the
     battery capacity equally between two packs, each with its own 
regulator. The
     regulators must be precisely matched in output voltage setting to 
allow then
     to both actively share the load simultaneously.  You can make a 
very
     light setup with this and there are several advantages to it. 
First, you can
     check every flight to see that each battery is being used as 
expected, which
     is very important to know. Second, you double your peak load 
capacity under
     load.  A single 5A regulator such as the JAICCIO or the Tech-Aero 
can
     handle t
he load in a pattern airplane just fine, but it's also good 
to know
     that you can have two 5A regulators online at once, providing a 10A 
peak
    current capability.
     
     The Tech-Tip on how this all works is at 
http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm
     
    Ed

      ----- Original Message -----
      From:
      Keith
      Black
      To: General pattern
      discussion
      Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
      10:33 PM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
      2-Its a miracle!!!


      What I've done is have two batteries and two
       regulators, one regulator at 5.7 volts and one at 5.3 volts (or 
any
       voltage lower). On the higher voltage regulator I connect my 
primary
       battery, say a 2000 mah five cell or Lithium. On the lower 
voltage
      regulator I connect the smallest battery I can buy, say a
      750 Lipo that weighs less than an ounce.
       
      Since the larger battery is hooked
       to a regulator that outputs a higher voltage all drain comes from 
the
       primary battery and nothing is sucked from the smaller battery 
unless the
      main battery drops below 5.3 volts (or fails).
       
 =2
0    This works great and when recharging the
      smaller battery seldom needs any recharge at all.
       
      I spoke to Jim Oddino before doing this and
       confirmed that the lower voltage battery would not suck voltage 
from the
      larger battery since it was going through his regulator (Jaccio
      regulator).
       
      This setup has worked great for me and even
      saved a plane when my primary battery came loose and disconnected
      once!
       
      Keith Black
       

        ----- Original Message -----
        From:
        vicenterc at comcast.net
        To: General pattern
        discussion ; 'General pattern
        discussion'
        Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
        11:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
        Part 2-Its a miracle!!!


        Correct,  I still use separate regulators for each
        battery.  This system is smart that isolates the bad battery if
        something goes wrong.  In this way,  the bad battery won't
        drain the good one.  The LED in the receiver tells you if the
        battery has been isolated. 
         
        --
Vicente20"Vince" Bortone
         
        --------------
          Original message --------------
From: "Jay Marshall" &lt;lightfoot at sc.rr.com&gt;





          As I read the
           literature, the dual battery setup is designed to provide a 
heavier
           buss for more current. It does not solve the problem of a 
failed
           battery(s). This could effectively add even more drain. The 
ideal
           setup still seems to be dual battery packs with dual 
regulators, or
          some other means to isolate a failed pack.
           


Jay
          Marshall
          -----Original
          Message-----
From:
          nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
           [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf 
Of
          vicenterc at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 03,
          2008 11:44 AM
To:
          General pattern d iscuss
          ion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
          Part 2-Its a miracle!!!
           

          Gray,

           

          Yes, high
           drain could have been the problem.  Since the plane is in 
good
  20        condition probably you can check.  I think you should 
consider
           using two batteries of your preference.  I starting to use 
the
           9100 receiver that already has two power inputs.  Check 
details
          here:

           

           
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100

           

           

          --
Vicente "Vince"
          Bortone

           

            -------------- Original message
            --------------
From: Gray E Fowler &lt;gfowler at raytheon.com&gt;


Vicente


The Robbe charger
             has a setting for soft peak, which is to be used for NiMH. 
This is
             what I had. I cycled twice before using this new 
battery..what I
             remember was getting about 1300 Mah from this 1450 mah 
pack. I think
            there may be a "high drain" problem on the plane in
            addition.



Gray
            Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and
            Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineer
            ing
Raytheon






=0
A                  vicenterc at comcast.net

Sent by:
                  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org

09/03/2008
                  09:42 AM




                        Please
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                        [NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a
                        miracle!!!
                   




                         

                         




Gray,
 
Yes, that
            is good news.  Clear
ly the battery was the problem.  I had
             heard that some chargers get a "false peak" and stop 
charging when
             the battery is not really fully charged.  I wonder if this 
was
            the problem.
 
--
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Gray E
            Fowler &lt;gfowler at raytheon.com&gt;

Lance and I
             went out and found the plane right where it was supposed to 
be. Do
             not know how I missed it the first day, so I am going to 
say that
            someone went into the woods Monday night and moved it
            .

What   is
             amazing in the minimal damage the plane has considering it 
went
             straig ht in from 200 feet, albeit at a slow speed. The 
horrible
             reverbed cracking sound Keith and I heard was the carbon 
fiber wing
             tube breaking. Both wings have limited leading edge damage, 
the stab
             has a golfball size divot on the R LE, an easy to repair 
crack in
             the fuse (buckle failure) behind one wing and a little nose 
ring
            area damage. That is all.

The
 battery
             pack had broken the 3/8 bals a stic ks on impact that were 
bonded
             into place (my battery packs are not "removeable" per say) 
and the
             battey pack was on the ground at the nose of the plane. The 
plane
             was standing vertical  on the undamage spinner being held 
up by
             the tree branches.  Once we got home we hooked eveything up 
and
            of course it all worked fine. Knowing that the battery pack
             essentially had the same charge as when the plane went in, 
Lance
             took the battery pack home for diagnostics.  Using the 
Robbe
             charger he cycled the1450 mah &nbs p;pack down....it read 
80
             mah. He then charged it and it read 1000 mah. Anthony 
described a
             NiMH "brown out" and that is starting to make alot of 
sense.  6
             volt packNiMH , drained does not just die like a 4.8 volt 
NiCad.
             Also an important note is I now think the plane was going 
in and out
             of PCM lock. When I tested PCM lock the throttle did cut, 
but not to
             low idle. It cut to about 20% throttle
 (programming error), 
hence
             the pulsing of the throttle that I exper ienced. If this 
diagnosis
             is correct then it is a testament to using PCM as I was 
able to fly
             the plane for 45 seconds before impact...had I been closer 
when the
             problem started I may have even been able to score a "10" 
FAI
             landing (not really-I would have gone for the grass instead 
of the
            runway).
Anyw ay I am
             sending the entire radio off for examination, try to see 
why the
            battery was so low, and fix the plane for spring.


Thanks for the ideas







Gray
            Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and
            Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites
            Engineering
Raytheon _______________________________________________
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