[NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trimming , left rudder tuck downline pulls
Derek Koopowitz
derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
Mon Mar 10 18:32:19 AKDT 2008
Do you think you could do this before Friday? LOL
I have a similar problem except mine just pulls to the canopy on both
up/downlines. I changed stab incidence to try and correct the downline pull
and it seemed to make it worse. I reset it... and now that I'm home I will
use my incidence meter to check wing and stab. I intend to go to zero on
stab (if it isn't there now) and then go positive on the wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chad
Northeast
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:23 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trimming , left rudder tuck
downline pulls
Ok boys, I will print off (because I would probably forget otherwise) and
take both Nat's and Bryan's suggestions with me to the field and have at 'er
:) Since they are different ideas to fix the same problem it will be
interesting to see which one (or maybe both?) work!
I know for a fact that more incidence and nose weight remove the left rudder
KE mix.
I am gong to be in Owego, NY from Wed to next Tues though so it will have to
wait until I am back. My wife will kill me if I go flying tomorrow LOL :)
Chad
shinden1 at cox.net wrote:
> Right on target Matt !
> Bryan
> ---- Matthew Frederick <mjfrederick at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I must be getting the hang of this... first thing I thought was add a
>> little incidence in the wing. Even though the down thrust is a bit
>> much... Like Bryan says all the time: wing incidence trumps it all.
>> CG, thrust, and stab incidence are used for extreme fine tuning. You
>> gotta get that incidence right first...
>>
>> Matt
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <shinden1 at cox.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:31 PM
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trimming ,left rudder tuck
>> downline pulls
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chad having a small tuck to the belly on left rudder only,, is
>>> always a result in a little too much tail weight ,,providing the
>>> stab halves and elevator halves are correct.
>>> thats whats happening in your wandering 4/5`s the tail weight as is
>>> ,,is making you add a little down elevator trim because the wing is
>>> flying a little more positive.
>>> You want to create the pos angle of attack with the wing only use
>>> the tail weight only to adjust the feel for rolls and inverted flight.
>>> engine thrust is contributory But ,not doing anything in the left
>>> knife edge.
>>> it would be happening in the right rudder too.
>>> sorry Nat..
>>> approach it like this, before you reset the down thrust ,,,because
>>> we want to know what really fixed it increase the wing inc 1/32 "
>>> more positive or till it stopps pulling in the downline , some
>>> airplane require the wing more than 1/2 deg depending on weight and
>>> airfoils 1/2 pos. is not a hard deck and you will have to move the
>>> cg forward to remove the left rudder knife mix ,,move it till you
>>> find a sweet spot , between downlines and both knife edges.
>>> , Always remember tail heavy makes the elevator and rudder
>>> sensitive and nose wweightmakes them a little numb but much more
>>> effective your spins,snaps entry and exits ,, up and downline,45`s
>>> will be corrected you will also see improvement in the wind due to
>>> the forward c/g and pos inc. add pos wing inc till it stops pulling
>>> to the canopy in the downs and let us know what happens Bryan darn
>>> now I have given away the family secrets ,And I have just made it
>>> harder to beat Chad <G>
>>>
>>> ---- Nat Penton <natpenton at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chad
>>>> Your problem is caused by the large difference between T/L and wing.
>>>> Reduce
>>>> the downthrust by 1 deg and reduce the wing incidence by 1 deg ,
>>>> and test.
>>>>
>>>> We will go from there.
>>>>
>>>> Your excess downthrust requires up elev trim when under power. You
>>>> need to adjust wing and T/L to avoid other problems. If you just
>>>> lower the wing inc it will go to the belly in knife. If you just
>>>> reduce the D/T it will go to
>>>> the canopy in knife.
Nat
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chad Northeast" <chadnortheast at shaw.ca>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.f3a.us>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ok you trim masters, here is a tricky one for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan and I have been through this a bit last year but I ran out
>>>>> of time before the Worlds to fix it and just flew with what I had.
>>>>>
>>>>> On my Twister I have this pesky problem, the setup is like so,
>>>>>
>>>>> wing = 1/2+ Bryans suggestion and I like it stab = 0 motor =
>>>>> factory claims 2.5 down, have not measured but could if asked, I
>>>>> have added more to cure a problem see below CG = has been anywhere
>>>>> from 275 to 300mm from TE mostly with the same result. Currently
>>>>> its around 285-290 and it feels good at that point.
>>>>> 45
>>>>> ups inverted track almost hands off if under enough power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Symptoms,
>>>>>
>>>>> Plane flies well, at this setup I need 0 mix right rudder to ele
>>>>> in knife, and about 2% up ele with left rudder in knife, about
>>>>> 1/32" down elevator with idle to fix a downline Added downthrust
>>>>> as the increase in wing inc. and more forward CG really helped the
>>>>> mix in knife and made rollers easier, but forced an increase in
>>>>> downthrust as the plane started pulling to the canopy on uplines.
>>>>> Downline mix remained the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> The big problem I cannot resolve is this, a 45 deg down upright
>>>>> (motor at
>>>>> idle) the plane pitches to the belly and will not track on its own
>>>>> for any length of time. If I switch the idle-down mix off its
>>>>> rock solid on that line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am open to all suggestions now that I have a bit of time to play
>>>>> with this, I hope Bryan chimes in some more as I would like to
>>>>> continue where we left off last fall. If you suggest something I
>>>>> will do my best to give it a go and let you know how it works
>>>>> (provided it doesn't snow!)
>>>>>
>>>>> The plane is basically super locked in with this setup, except for
>>>>> the silly 45 down upright, which is a problem in cubans and such.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments and thoughts from the masters are most appreciated :) I
>>>>> consider myself one of the, cant really trim that well but can fly
>>>>> through it just fine types :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Chad
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>
>>>>>
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