[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

chris moon cjm767driver at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 16 09:07:47 AKDT 2008 

Jim:

Try less elevator.  I had one plane that would do a sluggish snap and I 
kept increasing elevator and it never helped.  Then, I was told to try 
less and it fixed it right away.  Too much elevator is "too stalled" and 
does not respond to the other inputs well.

Chris

J N Hiller wrote:
> Thanks Jim for the link and it's content. Great info. We finally got some
> decent flying weather here in the northwest and this afternoon I wanted to
> work on the 45 down snap. I have changed the set-up of last year's airplane
> to a more forward CG and re-trimmed pitch yesterday. I like it better but
> that $#%^* snap appears slow and sluggish almost resembling a barrel roll,
> exiting on about a 35 degree line. I am already using high rate elevator for
> spin entry and planned to increase the travel and use it for the snap as
> well. I have experienced heading changes due to excessive rudder in both the
> 45 down snap and avalanche and fear more elevator travel will cause more
> exit heading deviation and using more aileron may give the appearance of a
> fast aileron roll. Today's challenge and the judges will let me know
> Saturday morning.
> Thanks again for the link. I want to get back into some IMAC competition and
> have a 50-size Yak ready to fly but I need to get some quality pattern
> practice first.
> Scale airplanes snap a lot easier!
> Jim Hiller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim
> (US SSA)
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:48 AM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
> Guys,
>
> I thought the FAI changes explicitly allowed flick rolls?  The rule
> reads, "... fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation
> from the flight path."
>
> It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK."   Please DO NOT ERROUNIOUSLY
> APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment to the snap roll.
> Watch the whole maneuver then render your score.
>
> A break and separation from the flight path simply means that the nose
> and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical fashion about the fight
> axis.  Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at the same moment if that is
> how the pilot does it.
>
> Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff at this link
> below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done in IMAC.
>
> http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77
>
> thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ken
> Thompson
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:47 PM
> To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
> How'd I do?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Thompson" 
> To: "General pattern discussion" 
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
>
>   
>> That would be the first part...after that better be the tail forming a
>>     
>
>   
>> cone, or else...no it wouldn't be a snap;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JShulman" 
>> To: "General pattern discussion" 
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> Would you say that if the plane breaks in pitch it is a snap?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>> www.jasonshulman.com
>>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>>> www.composite-arf.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ken
>>> Thompson
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:36 PM
>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL!!!  I'll be waiting in the wings to read the comments :-)
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "JShulman" 
>>> To: "General pattern discussion" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Must be even closer to the Nats... after this is Spins...lol.
>>>>
>>>> Are we talking shoulder rolling or straight rolling?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jason
>>>> www.jasonshulman.com
>>>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>>>> www.composite-arf.com
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ken
>>>> Thompson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM
>>>> To: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com; General pattern discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can it be a snap if no pitch or break is shown?
>>>>
>>>> And yes...I know this comment is setting up a serious discussion :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Fuqua" 
>>>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" 
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:18 PM
>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> For those FAI pilots at the Harvest contest this weekend who took
>>>>>           
> the
>   
>>>>> position that the airplane need no longer show pitch or break to
>>>>>           
> enter
>   
>>>>> the
>>>>> snap I invite you to para 5B.7.5 of the FAI rule book.  Looks to me
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> like
>>>>> the
>>>>> only change is that a zero is no longer appropriate but a mandatory
>>>>> downgrade of more than 5 points is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>           
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