[NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

Thu Jul 10 12:20:08 AKDT 2008

Ron,

I'm glad to see at least one person sees it my way...

Matt
---- Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote: 
> Oh oh!  Mark just said that the first radius is used to judge the  
> second radius.  According to the current rules, you can't do any  
> comparisons until all radii have been seen.
> 
> Ron VP
> 
> On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:58 PM, atwoodm at paragon-inc.com wrote:
> 
> > I have always felt that the best way to judge this would be to  
> > simply downgrade any CHANGE in radius.  Thus you are always simply  
> > comparing the last radius to the current one.   If you work through  
> > it, it scores pretty well.
> >
> > The worst case example would be in an eight where you vary every  
> > other radius from large to small (which actually happens a lot  
> > given corner on tbe top and bottom).
> >
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
> >
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 20:47:38
> > To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
> >
> >
> > I would argue against that there "has never been a rule (in AMA) that
> > the 1st radii is the standard for the maneuver".
> >
> > I've been judging for many years and I challenge anyone to be able to
> > sort through all the different radii in a Square Horizontal Eight,
> > decide what the "standard' radius was, how much the various radii
> > differed from it, assign downgrades and write a score on the
> > scoresheet before the airplane was in the next maneuver.
> >
> > Regards also,
> >
> > Ron Van Putte
> >
> > On Jul 9, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Dave wrote:
> >
> >> "Since, in the latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we
> >> need to
> >> train judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard"
> >>
> >> I sincerely hope prior training was not contrary to the above?  It
> >> has never
> >> been a rule (in AMA) that the 1st radii is the standard for the
> >> maneuver -
> >> and it never should be!!  When 7 radii in a square 8 are the same,
> >> and 1 is
> >> different - it should be painfully obvious which radii is to be
> >> downgraded.
> >> FAI has screwed up making the 1st radii the standard for the
> >> maneuver - no
> >> need for AMA to blindly follow that error (or any others - ie, AMA
> >> rules
> >> should never include process or procedure to automatically adopt
> >> anything
> >> from FAI - AMA can always choose to copy or follow FAI).
> >>
> >> Noting every single error and element in complex maneuvers is not
> >> easy (nor
> >> is flying them easy).  And just like every pilot is not capable of
> >> every
> >> maneuver, not every judge is going to catch all errors all the
> >> time.  This
> >> is a competitive event, and for the both the pilot and the just,
> >> there is
> >> only 1 that is the best.  And in both cases, the "best" is probably
> >> the one
> >> with the "best" combination of talent, hardwork, practice, and
> >> training.  I
> >> see no need to either dumb down the maneuvers or dumb down the  
> >> judging
> >> criteria to blur the distinction between the best and 2nd best -
> >> seems quite
> >> contrary to the goal in pattern of perfect maneuvers.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Dave Lockhart
> >> DaveL322 at comcast.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron
> >> Van Putte
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:36 AM
> >> To: General pattern discussion
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
> >>
> >> I wonder how many judges are able to do all those steps in
> >> determining and recording a score before the next maneuver starts.
> >> Remember, many of these judges are the ones who can't write down a
> >> score without looking away from the airplane and looking down at the
> >> scoresheet.
> >>
> >> Ron VP
> >>
> >> On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Joe Dunnaway wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's nothing different than what we have been doing.
> >>>
> >>> Joe Dunnaway
> >>>
> >>> Ron Van Putte wrote:
> >>>> Yeah, lets quit talking about that.  Plus, let's not talk about
> >>>> spins and snaps.  Let's talk about how to judge the eight
> >>>> different radii in the Square Horizontal Eight.  Since, in the
> >>>> latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we need to train
> >>>> judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard,   2.
> >>>> They have to decide what radius represents most of the radii in
> >>>> the maneuver,  3.  They must determine how each radius deviates
> >>>> from this standard and assign a downgrade,  4.  They then must add
> >>>> up all the downgrades and subtract the sum of the downgrades from
> >>>> 10 and 5.  They must write the score down on the scoresheet before
> >>>> the airplane enters the next maneuver.  Nothing to it; it just
> >>>> takes a little training.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ron VP
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Wayne Galligan wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Now we are back to the driveway, parkway thing huh?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WG
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Keith Hoard
> >>>>> To: General pattern discussion
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:50 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Then I stopped in the middle of the road and went outside began
> >>>>> yelling at people to 'get the hell out of my driveway!!!' . . ."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Wayne Galligan
> >>>>> <wgalligan at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Actually Steven Wright went home one night and put the key in the
> >>>>> door to the house to open it and it started.... so he drove it
> >>>>> around the block.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WG
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Tim Taylor
> >>>>> To: General pattern discussion
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:15 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Steven Wright not Carlin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
> >>>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca- 
> >>>>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 3:08 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, but as George Carlin once asked, "Why do we drive on the
> >>>>> parkway and park on the driveway?" Ron VP On Jul 7, 2008, at
> >>>>> 12:54 PM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > Particularly considering a
> >>>>> bra holds a pair of... Well, you know > what I am getting at. > >
> >>>>> Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> wrote: > I'm still waiting for
> >>>>> them to burn pantys. > > BTW, how come is it a "pair of pantys"
> >>>>> but only "one bra"??? > > Bob R > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Del
> >>>>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote: > Hmmm `~ brings back memories
> >>>>> when women insisted on burning their > bra's... ~~ I never
> >>>>> complained~~ just raised my eyelids for closer > observation..
> >>>>> <g> > > Del > > ps ~~ realize it may be an age related comment ..
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> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keith Hoard
> >>>>> Collierville, TN
> >>>>> khoard at gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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