[NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

Wed Jul 9 20:11:26 AKDT 2008

Not sure where you read "that the first radius is used to judge the
second radius." in Mark statement.

Ken
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
To: <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>; "General pattern discussion" 
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

> Oh oh!  Mark just said that the first radius is used to judge the  second 
> radius.  According to the current rules, you can't do any  comparisons 
> until all radii have been seen.
>
> Ron VP
>
> On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:58 PM, atwoodm at paragon-inc.com wrote:
>
>> I have always felt that the best way to judge this would be to  simply 
>> downgrade any CHANGE in radius.  Thus you are always simply  comparing 
>> the last radius to the current one.   If you work through  it, it scores 
>> pretty well.
>>
>> The worst case example would be in an eight where you vary every  other 
>> radius from large to small (which actually happens a lot  given corner on 
>> tbe top and bottom).
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 20:47:38
>> To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>
>>
>> I would argue against that there "has never been a rule (in AMA) that
>> the 1st radii is the standard for the maneuver".
>>
>> I've been judging for many years and I challenge anyone to be able to
>> sort through all the different radii in a Square Horizontal Eight,
>> decide what the "standard' radius was, how much the various radii
>> differed from it, assign downgrades and write a score on the
>> scoresheet before the airplane was in the next maneuver.
>>
>> Regards also,
>>
>> Ron Van Putte
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Dave wrote:
>>
>>> "Since, in the latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we
>>> need to
>>> train judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard"
>>>
>>> I sincerely hope prior training was not contrary to the above?  It
>>> has never
>>> been a rule (in AMA) that the 1st radii is the standard for the
>>> maneuver -
>>> and it never should be!!  When 7 radii in a square 8 are the same,
>>> and 1 is
>>> different - it should be painfully obvious which radii is to be
>>> downgraded.
>>> FAI has screwed up making the 1st radii the standard for the
>>> maneuver - no
>>> need for AMA to blindly follow that error (or any others - ie, AMA
>>> rules
>>> should never include process or procedure to automatically adopt
>>> anything
>>> from FAI - AMA can always choose to copy or follow FAI).
>>>
>>> Noting every single error and element in complex maneuvers is not
>>> easy (nor
>>> is flying them easy).  And just like every pilot is not capable of
>>> every
>>> maneuver, not every judge is going to catch all errors all the
>>> time.  This
>>> is a competitive event, and for the both the pilot and the just,
>>> there is
>>> only 1 that is the best.  And in both cases, the "best" is probably
>>> the one
>>> with the "best" combination of talent, hardwork, practice, and
>>> training.  I
>>> see no need to either dumb down the maneuvers or dumb down the  judging
>>> criteria to blur the distinction between the best and 2nd best -
>>> seems quite
>>> contrary to the goal in pattern of perfect maneuvers.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Dave Lockhart
>>> DaveL322 at comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron
>>> Van Putte
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:36 AM
>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>
>>> I wonder how many judges are able to do all those steps in
>>> determining and recording a score before the next maneuver starts.
>>> Remember, many of these judges are the ones who can't write down a
>>> score without looking away from the airplane and looking down at the
>>> scoresheet.
>>>
>>> Ron VP
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Joe Dunnaway wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's nothing different than what we have been doing.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Dunnaway
>>>>
>>>> Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>> Yeah, lets quit talking about that.  Plus, let's not talk about
>>>>> spins and snaps.  Let's talk about how to judge the eight
>>>>> different radii in the Square Horizontal Eight.  Since, in the
>>>>> latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we need to train
>>>>> judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard,   2.
>>>>> They have to decide what radius represents most of the radii in
>>>>> the maneuver,  3.  They must determine how each radius deviates
>>>>> from this standard and assign a downgrade,  4.  They then must add
>>>>> up all the downgrades and subtract the sum of the downgrades from
>>>>> 10 and 5.  They must write the score down on the scoresheet before
>>>>> the airplane enters the next maneuver.  Nothing to it; it just
>>>>> takes a little training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron VP
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Wayne Galligan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now we are back to the driveway, parkway thing huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WG
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Keith Hoard
>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:50 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Then I stopped in the middle of the road and went outside began
>>>>>> yelling at people to 'get the hell out of my driveway!!!' . . ."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Wayne Galligan
>>>>>> <wgalligan at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Actually Steven Wright went home one night and put the key in the
>>>>>> door to the house to open it and it started.... so he drove it
>>>>>> around the block.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Tim Taylor
>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:15 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven Wright not Carlin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca- discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 3:08 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, but as George Carlin once asked, "Why do we drive on the
>>>>>> parkway and park on the driveway?" Ron VP On Jul 7, 2008, at
>>>>>> 12:54 PM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > Particularly considering a
>>>>>> bra holds a pair of... Well, you know > what I am getting at. > >
>>>>>> Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> wrote: > I'm still waiting for
>>>>>> them to burn pantys. > > BTW, how come is it a "pair of pantys"
>>>>>> but only "one bra"??? > > Bob R > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Del
>>>>>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote: > Hmmm `~ brings back memories
>>>>>> when women insisted on burning their > bra's... ~~ I never
>>>>>> complained~~ just raised my eyelids for closer > observation..
>>>>>> <g> > > Del > > ps ~~ realize it may be an age related comment ..
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keith Hoard
>>>>>> Collierville, TN
>>>>>> khoard at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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