[NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers

Don Ramsey donramsey at gmail.com
Mon Sep 10 05:19:55 AKDT 2007


Morten,

Here is the response from Bob Skinner.

Don

Dear Don

 

The Sporting Code does not define upper, mid, or lower levels, and I guess a good compromise would be to make a generous, but not full outside loop, to leave enough room for the triangle and its components. The radius of the following Figure 9 could then be smaller, provided the exit part-loop matches.

 

The new schedules do not include scored take-off or landings and if a competitor should run out of time between the last manoeuvre and the landing, there is no penalty.

 

Morten is absolutely right: the manoeuvre name is unclear and the description will rectify this. Between Henny van Loon, Jiri Havel, and Peter Uhlig, they have provided great help in writing these up. It will shortly be available on the FAI website.

 

My best regards

Bob

 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morten Laugesen 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


  Hi Don,

  Thanks for the feed back, and I guess that is how it will be flown anyway. It's just unusual to go higher than the normal top-line, I'm not aware that this has been done before in the FAI schedules. Anyway it would be nice with a more comprehensive manoeuvre description to clear things up a bit. As has also been mentioned before the text description of manoeuvre #13 is simply wrong. In my opinion it should say "full integrated roll in the transition between loop no. 1 and no. 2" instead.

  Also another question. Say you run out of time (8 minutes) before touching down, will they then give you a zero for manoeuvre #17 since the landing is not scored anymore? Usually the judge will have given his score for the final manoeuvre before the landing...

  Thanks.


  Kind regards,
  Morten Laugesen

  e-mail: morten at laugesen.nu
  URL:   http://morten.laugesen.nu


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Don Ramsey 
    To: NSRCA Mailing List 
    Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:08 PM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


    Morten,

    I don't think there is a higher line on maneuver 8.  The figure 9 (maneuver 8) does start on a high line and does go higher but that higher point is never flown, it is only touched.  Since it is a turn around maneuver the high box is not going to be a factor.  The maneuver will get very high but should not affect the judging (I think).

    Don
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Morten Laugesen 
      To: NSRCA Mailing List 
      Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:37 PM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


      Hi,

       


      Now that the discussion about the new schedules has come up I thought that I would ask about your opinion regarding a sequence of manoeuvres in P-09. In Denmark we have been discussing how to interpret manoeuvres 6, 7 and 8.



      They are:

      6: Half outside loop, inverted entry

      7: Triangle loop, with ½ rolls in each leg, inverted exit

      8: Figure 9, two ½ rolls in opposite direction on downline, inverted entry




      What we are thinking is that if done this way, and if the exit of the half outside loop and the entry to the triangle loop are done at the normal upper flight line (top-line) a second even higher top-line will be introduced when performing the Figure 9? My understanding of the rules is that you have a bottom-, a middle- and a top-line in the box, but now it seems we have introduced a second top-line?

       

      If the triangle loop is actually the bottom half of an hour-glass, and hence entered at half height things make better sense, however then it could possibly be difficult to get time to perform the half rolls on each leg of the triangle loop.? It can be done, but it wouldn't look very graceful?

       

      Any ideas or opinions on this matter?



      Kind regards,
      Morten Laugesen

      e-mail: morten at laugesen.nu
      URL:   http://morten.laugesen.nu


        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: george w. kennie 
        To: NSRCA Mailing List 
        Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:22 PM
        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


        Yeah John,
        I got thinking about this yesterday after I mailed the question and came up with the only way it would make sense and yes you're right, the Aresti shows it as you state.
        Thanks for enlightening me.
        G.



          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: John Gayer 
          To: NSRCA Mailing List 
          Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


          The only way the  maneuver makes sense is if the roll is the last 45 degrees of the first loop and the first 45 degrees of the second loop. It is clearer in the Arresti diagram.
          John

          Steven Maxwell wrote: 
            Ok what am I missing #13 P-09 "2 outside loops from the top full integrated roll over top 90 degrees of second loop" wouldn't the second loop be completed before the 90 degrees of the roll?
             Steve Maxwell

            Earl Haury <ejhaury at comcast.net> wrote:
              Karl

              My fault - not Don's, the magic of PC copying.

              Earl
                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Karl G. Mueller 
                To: Don Ramsey ; NSRCA Mailing List 
                Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:47 PM
                Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


                Don,

                The scoresheet for the finals schedule 09 reads P0-9
                instead of F-09.

                Karl G. Mueller
                kgamueller at rogers.com

                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: Don Ramsey 
                  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
                  Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:46 PM
                  Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2008 FAI F3A Maneuvers


                  The 2008-2009 F3A maneuvers are posted on the judging section of the NSRCA site.  Score sheets are also there.

                  http://www.nsrca.org/competition/judging/judging.htm

                  Don

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